BCTF claims victory at Supreme Court of Canada

[Veovis]

The SCoC did 'hand the government its bleep on a plate' and considerably bruised a lot of the egos in the ChristyLiberal government -not to mention the BCSPEA negotiating team who must be gnashing their teeth over the issue.

HOWEVER, the BCTF has a new president who people feel rather confident about, so let's hope that the BCSPEA has also made some alterations and a cooperative and collaborative atmosphere comes to the negotiating table - whenever that happens.

I don't think the "on a plate" is required as I'm not sure it is the victory that is being alluded to, however it is certainly not a bad thing as it is a win. Part of the issues are that BCTF wanted the control over hard limits and the funding for them. Their fiscal acumen is clear to all but the faithfully devote to the church, but they have some room to better things here and it depends on how they use it.

Do they go right over the top with ridiculous demands and public campaigns that are full of continued falsehoods most parents and general public are tired of and therefore more willing to side with the government, or do they take a slightly over middle ground of what they might actually manage to achieve in the real world and get 1% or 2% better than they would due to court and public favor.

If they come out like the George+'s....they will get damned little in the end as war never wins and the "poor me I'm only a 10%er" has failed badly, yet is still the go to "act like a victim" move that has failed for the BCTF (or worked depending on where the money really went for all the fights).

personally I like our education system, I see regularly that it works quite well, but I love additions and betterment to it all the time.

[The Green Barbarian]

Yes, COTA is a good local.

Yikes. Talk about the kiss of death for COTA.

[George+]

The government will have to do exactly what the 2002 contract said...
Or offer better.
They will have to show flexibility now after 15 years of starving the system.

[Urbane]

The article says that talks begin "Wednesday" and today is Wednesday so I'm presuming the talks are underway as of today. Or at the latest next Wednesday. Let's hope for a speedy resolution and one that benefits students.

Government and BCTF to discuss class size and composition
News Talk 980 CKNW
Emily Lazatin
Posted: November 30, 2016

Government and BCTF to discuss class size and composition

Talks between the government and the BC Teachers Federation begin on Wednesday in Vancouver over class size and composition.

BCTF President Glen Hansman says he doesn’t expect it to drag out and remains hopeful conversations between parties remain peaceful.
Full article: http://www.cknw.com/2016/11/30/governme ... mposition/

[George+]

There are no "ridiculous demands."

It is the 2002 contract or..

Contempt of the Supreme Court of Canada.

[Veovis]

There are no "ridiculous demands."

It is the 2002 contract or..

Contempt of the Supreme Court of Canada.

But there is a fact of ridiculous demands, and thinking there is no limit at all is simply blind faith.

Work to improve the system is good, bending to any demand no matter what especially when it means nothing for kids or education or teachers but personal pockets, is bad. If you actually cared about education kids and teachers you wouldn't want blind agreements, but negotiated agreements.

[George+]

The 2002 conract was negotiated.

It is the B.C. Liberal government that is blind.

[Urbane]

The 2002 conract was negotiated.

It is the B.C. Liberal government that is blind.

There shouldn't be any argument about the facts. We all know what happened in 1998 and we also know what happened in 2002. We also know what the Supreme Court of Canada ruled. As well, we know that a lot has changed since 2002 when the class size and composition language was removed from the contract. Justice Griffin referred to those changes when she ruled that while the language needed to be put back into the contract it was not carved in stone and that it was only the starting point for negotiations moving forward. So let's not pretend that Justice Griffin or the SCOC ruled that the language is simply put back in place and that that's the end of the story. Far from it.

So how about this George: Both sides come to the table in good faith. Both sides work from the old language to develop new language that actually works. The system must be affordable. You'll remember that the NDP couldn't come up with enough money to make the old language work. Nor could the Liberals so let's find a workable solution. That solution will see lots more specialist teachers and lots more classroom teachers hired but we must make sure that they're placed in the most efficient and educationally productive way. Anything wrong with that George?

[The Green Barbarian]

So how about this George: Both sides come to the table in good faith. Both sides work from the old language to develop new language that actually works. The system must be affordable. You'll remember that the NDP couldn't come up with enough money to make the old language work. Nor could the Liberals so let's find a workable solution. That solution will see lots more specialist teachers and lots more classroom teachers hired but we must make sure that they're placed in the most efficient and educationally productive way. Anything wrong with that George?

Of course. In your scenario the BCTF doesn't have carte blanche to just hire all the teachers they want. Until that day comes (which I fear would come if this province is ever dumb enough to elect the NDP to a majority again) the Georges of the world will never stop complaining, about everything, including "chronic underfunding", even with hundreds of millions being added to the education budget. The complaining will never, ever stop.

[maryjane48]

im still waiting for the apology from clark supporters that knowingly wasted my tax money on a ego trip.

[flamingfingers]

im still waiting for the apology from clark supporters that knowingly wasted my tax money on a ego trip.

The Clark supporters will never apologize for anything done by the ChristyLiberals - they still firmly believe the NDP are to blame for the contract with the BCTF, way back in 1998. Instead they should be pointing fingers at the BC Liberals who ignored advice to NEGOTIATE the terms of the contract but instead arrogantly ripped up the contract. The very fact of them arbitrarily removing class size and composition language in that contract is precisely what was addressed by Judge Griffin and reaffirmed by the SCoC after only 20 minutes of discussion.

MILLIONS of dollars wasted by the BC Liberals in court actions over 15 years and a whole generation of students denied support services over an ideologic attempt to break the BC Teachers' Federation.

And then ChristyClark saying she was "excited" about the opportunity to help the kids, and in the same breath admitting that the SCoC decision 'was anticipated' so there were dollars 'set aside for this eventuality'.. She has about as much credibility as 'professional wrestling'.

[George+]

Both of 'you know who' attempts to blame the NDP are pathetic.

The Liberals had to negotiate in good faith.
They didn't. Period.

They have cheated the children of the province for 15 years.
And deserve to be punished.

[The Green Barbarian]

- they still firmly believe the NDP are to blame for the contract with the BCTF, way back in 1998.

Because its true. I realize that you are physically incapable of ever blaming the NDP for anything, but it doesn't change the fact that their sheer stupidity and the fact that they are controlled by unions caused this problem. The NDP is a disease.

[The Green Barbarian]

They have cheated the children of the province for 15 years.
And deserve to be punished.

And the BCTF used children as pawns in their disgusting strike. They deserve to be punished.

[Urbane]

Both of 'you know who' attempts to blame the NDP are pathetic.

The Liberals had to negotiate in good faith.
They didn't. Period.

They have cheated the children of the province for 15 years.
And deserve to be punished.

The BCTF blamed the NDP for not spending enough on education. Here are a few excerpts from a BCTF funding brief in the year 2000:

Restore the 1990–1991 student/educator ratio by increasing real per-
capita funding.

Ensure that funding allocations to districts reflect the actual costs of
fully implementing the collective agreement, including matters
previously negotiated at the local level.

Fully fund the actual costs of special education to eliminate the need
for districts to raid other parts of the operating budget.

Provide and fund English as a Second Language services to all
students needing them. Immediately distribute funds promised for
students who have been in ESL programs for more than five years.

While it may be fun to pretend that the only complaints from the BCTF have been directed against the Liberals, or perhaps against the Socreds in the old days, the fact is that they were very critical of the NDP as well. "Chronic underfunding" has been the complaint forever. Anyway, the SCOC ruling is now forcing the two sides to sit down and hammer out language that will actually work. That will happen if both sides approach the negotiations in good faith. We can point fingers all we want on here but it's important that the government and the union work constructively and without finger-pointing to make this work. We all know the history and we all have our own opinions about the past but how about concentrating on the here and now and being supportive of more resources that work for students.