Site C

[hobbyguy]

http://www.desertsun.com/story/tech/science/energy/2016/12/20/another-big-solar-farm-coming-california-desert/95617460/

"EDF first proposed Desert Harvest in 2009, winning approval from the federal Bureau of Land Management in 2013. Along the way, the project faced opposition from conservationists who feared it would disrupt habitat critical to the desert tortoise, which is listed as threatened under the federal Endangered Species Act. But two of the major protesters — Defenders of Wildlife and the Natural Resources Defense Council — dropped their objections after the developer agreed to concessions, such as buying private land near the project and setting it aside as protected habitat.

"We wanted to have a pathway for desert tortoises and other species that might wander down through that drainage," said Jeff Aardahl, a biologist with Defenders of Wildlife. "We wanted a way for them to escape that and then continue on across the valley, and that's where some of the private land acquisitions would occur."

EDF's other big solar proposal in Riverside County, the 500-megawatt Palen project, is much more controversial. Conservationists and tribal groups have slammed Palen, saying it would disrupt Mojave fringe-toed lizard and desert tortoise habitat and destroy ancient Native American artifacts and sacred sites. The project is currently being considered by the Bureau of Land Management."

[BeingHuman]

Ourselves, our children, and even their children, will be paying for Site C until 2094. We cannot let this happen, time to kick these irresponsible BC Liberals to the curb on May 9th.

https://www.biv.com/article/2016/10/tax ... ntil-2094/

[hobbyguy]

Lol. You will not be paying for it, The business case is self supporting.

Yes, it will put moderate upward pressure on hydro rates, but nowhere near what the alternatives will. Maybe $.01/kWh? Compare that to the alternatives which will cost you $.24 to $.33 /kWh.

Logic says I choose $.01. Site C opponent says 'Noooo" I wanna pay $.24.

Site C is a good project, and the opponents are simply not looking at the facts.

[Smurf]

BeingHuman can you give us any source of power that we and future generations won't be paying for for our life times. That actually won't be more expensive monetarily and environmentally than site C over it's 100 year lifetime. Something that will actually work on the scale and in conjunction with the systems we require.

[Urban Cowboy]

Yeah you and lasnomadas won't rest until you can turn BC into this


Just to ensure that we have a power source that costs three times as much.

Who cares about birds, pollinating insects, and such, just don't build it anywhere near me.

Visions of the short sighted.

[BeingHuman]

Actually we would love to see small two or three hectare places outside of each community in BC look like this: https://www.wired.com/2015/05/future-wi ... no-blades/ or maybe even like this wind forest: http://assets.inhabitat.com/wp-content/ ... rest-1.jpg

Would love to see more our cities with these types of buildings!

http://www.solarnovus.com/bipv-solar-in ... N9846.html

[Urban Cowboy]

I will say that looks like it's a lot more bird friendly, but again, how long before the technology is proven and ready for prime time?

If it relies on wind it will still require backup power, like a dam.

As far as aesthetics goes, I have to tell you I still prefer the look of a dam. I think mother nature would agree.

[Smurf]

BeingHuman you very well might see those things, as long as we have site C synchronous 24/365 power to back them up they would be great. I think everyone one on here agrees with that, however some of us are smart enough to realize it has to be a complete system to work properly.

As far as the bladeless or vortex turbines it sounds like they are still a long way from being viable. They could definitely be a way of the future, distant future possibly, who knows.

Quotes from an article from MIT technology review.

The Vortex turbine sounds promising, but like any radical new alternative energy design, bladeless turbines have plenty of skeptics.

“If you have a common propeller-type wind turbine, you have a big area swept by the blades,” says Martin Hansen, a wind energy specialist at the Technical University of Denmark. “Here you just have a pole.”

In addition to capturing less energy, oscillating cylinders can’t convert as much of that energy into electricity, Hansen says. A conventional wind turbine typically converts 80 to 90 percent of the kinetic energy of its spinning rotor into electricity. Yáñez says his company’s custom-built linear generator will have a conversion efficiency of 70 percent.

Yáñez concedes that the oscillating turbine design will sweep a smaller area and have a lower conversion efficiency, but says significant reductions in manufacturing and maintenance costs will outweigh the losses.

As Vortex builds bigger devices that catch higher-speed winds further from the ground, it will also run up against other challenges inherent to the physics of fluid mechanics. Air or other fluids moving at low speeds past small-diameter cylinders flow in a smooth, constant motion. Increase the diameter of the cylinder and the speed at which the air flows across it, however, and the flow becomes turbulent, producing chaotic eddies or vortices. The turbulent flow causes the oscillating frequency of the cylinder to vary, making it difficult to optimize for energy production.

“With very thin cylinders and very slow velocities you get singing telephone lines, an absolutely pure frequency or tone,” says Sheila Widnall, an aeronautics and astronautics professor at MIT. “But when the cylinder gets very big and wind gets very high, you get a range of frequencies. You won’t be able to get as much energy out of it as you want to because the oscillation is fundamentally turbulent.”

Widnall also questions the company’s claim that its turbines will be silent. “The oscillating frequencies that shake the cylinder will make noise,” she says. “It will sound like a freight train coming through your wind farm.”

https://www.technologyreview.com/s/5377 ... -function/

It definitely has possibilities but is a long way from fruitation if ever.

[hobbyguy]

Lost in not looking at things pragmatically.

Yes, you can build fancified solar buildings and buildings that require a lot less energy. BUT they are super, super expensive. So when a potential landlord rents out space in a given building, they look at the cost to build and the return on investment they need, and the maintenance costs among other factors. The capital costs and maintenance costs will be much higher. Unless the building includes energy storage, the solar building will be "free riding" off the grid and thus requiring everybody else to subsidize it. There is no mention of storage in that project. Anyway, if you are an average citizen looking to rent an apartment in such a building, I would suggest that the rent would be completely unaffordable for you.

So it is a nice, fancy academic endeavor, but where is the practical reality? Don't forget that the ROI they speak of in the article is based on the electricity markets in the area. Electricity rates in Vienna? About $.24/kWh - more than double what we pay. The cost of utilities for a small (480 sq ft) apartment with 1 person only (heat and electricity) in Vienna is listed as $256/month. That is much more than I pay for a single family home.

These kinds of things look really neat from the outside, but when you start to look into them you realize that they only work in the ivory towers of academia.

[maryjane48]

http://glbn.ca/6plieS



whens bchydro plàn on doing this ? eliminate security deposits

[lasnomadas]

Very relieved to see that at least one of Site C's biggest supporters has admitted that the Green Party has a viable platform. Since the elimination of the Site C dam project is one of the planks in their platform, this must mean that you agree with the experts who have stated that not only is this dam unnecessary, but it has been proven to be geologically unsound, as corroborated by the Geological Survey Branch of B.C.

[maryjane48]

when computers first came out they cost millions . now pennies . same will happen for solar . elon musk doesnt make losing bets . tesla is worth more than gm ford or dodge hahaha. same will happen with space x and solar . musk wins bchydro customers lose with site c

[Urban Cowboy]

Very relieved to see that at least one of Site C's biggest supporters has admitted that the Green Party has a viable platform. Since the elimination of the Site C dam project is one of the planks in their platform, this must mean that you agree with the experts who have stated that not only is this dam unnecessary, but it has been proven to be geologically unsound, as corroborated by the Geological Survey Branch of B.C.

Not really, it just means that as usual you are reading into a statement, just what you want it to have said.

[lasnomadas]

Anyone who has lived in the southwest desert area of Riverside county (as I have) knows that these wind turbines are a welcome addition to an otherwise bleak landscape, and that there is a very strong environmental lobby down there. If there was any danger to the flora and fauna, you can be sure those turbines would never be built.

I recall while I lived down there, they were building a new expressway and a couple of off-ramps and overpasses. The whole operation ground to a halt when environmentalists decided one of the overpasses was adversely impacting the fringe-toed lizard. The engineers had to make the necessary alterations before the project could proceed.

[flamingfingers]

SPENDING TOMORROW'S MONEY ON YESTERDAY'S IDEAS.

https://www.justthedamfacts.ca/