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NDP plan to make forming union easier and fair

Re: NDP plan to make forming union easier and fair

Postby flamingfingers » Jun 18th, 2017, 4:54 pm

"LordEd"[
Not really. You just need to fire a few of those with signed cards.


OR:
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Why do people who fancy themselves "fiscal conservatives" not scream at hidden debt accumulated in the past dozen years? Or, do they only object to spending on social programs?
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Re: Ndp plan to make forming union easier and fair

Postby LordEd » Jun 18th, 2017, 5:47 pm

Do you see eliminating a secret ballot as a good thing ff?

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Re: Ndp plan to make forming union easier and fair

Postby maryjane48 » Jun 18th, 2017, 5:49 pm

um lord 3d if you fire someone for having a signed card are you able to pay the wrongfull dismissal fines ? if not i do not suggest you do that [icon_lol2.gif]
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Re: Ndp plan to make forming union easier and fair

Postby maryjane48 » Jun 18th, 2017, 5:50 pm

LordEd wrote:Do you see eliminating a secret ballot as a good thing ff?

yes because once theres a majority 9f cards the union is certified. easy peasy [icon_lol2.gif]
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Re: Ndp plan to make forming union easier and fair

Postby flamingfingers » Jun 18th, 2017, 6:07 pm

I don't see that big a problem with 'card check' - you either sign your union card or you don't. The union wins - or it doesn't.

An employer gets the union it deserves. In other words, if employees are treated well by management, they have no worries about employees unionizing; however, if employees are constantly dissatisfied, are being treated as 'privileged slaves,told to be thankful they have a job', I can see their point in wanting to be unionized.

Fair treatment rests with management.
Why do people who fancy themselves "fiscal conservatives" not scream at hidden debt accumulated in the past dozen years? Or, do they only object to spending on social programs?

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Re: Ndp plan to make forming union easier and fair

Postby maryjane48 » Jun 18th, 2017, 6:10 pm

and by definition anyone posting here against unions being made easier to form must treat their employies like what ? :biggrin:
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Re: Ndp plan to make forming union easier and fair

Postby mikest2 » Jun 18th, 2017, 6:44 pm

flamingfingers wrote:I don't see that big a problem with 'card check' - you either sign your union card or you don't. The union wins - or it doesn't.

An employer gets the union it deserves. In other words, if employees are treated well by management, they have no worries about employees unionizing; however, if employees are constantly dissatisfied, are being treated as 'privileged slaves,told to be thankful they have a job', I can see their point in wanting to be unionized.

Fair treatment rests with management.


Card check is the same as a show of hands, everyone gets to know which way you voted. It's like walking into your Federal, Provincial, or Municipal polling station and stating to the polling clerk and everyone in the queue who you're voting for.
For many people that is a very intimidating thing. A secret ballot is fair, and should remain a right for all workers, both in certification and in bargaining. If you want to know, yes I was a member in good standing in two unions.
Once I thought I was wrong.....but I was mistaken...

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Re: Ndp plan to make forming union easier and fair

Postby maryjane48 » Jun 18th, 2017, 7:17 pm

yes but in secret ballots you could have people who actualy work for managment mixed in with other workers. i also was a member in good standing and saw my so called fellow union members in few cases working for managment in a direct way .


that is why i question anyone comming down against it. the ndp talked about it in 2013 and it was clark i believe who changed some labour code rules that i hope the ndp reinstate as they give the upper hand to the employers . it is not a level field now
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Re: Ndp plan to make forming union easier and fair

Postby rustled » Jun 19th, 2017, 7:32 am

maryjane48 wrote:yes but in secret ballots you could have people who actualy work for managment mixed in with other workers. i also was a member in good standing and saw my so called fellow union members in few cases working for managment in a direct way .


that is why i question anyone comming down against it. the ndp talked about it in 2013 and it was clark i believe who changed some labour code rules that i hope the ndp reinstate as they give the upper hand to the employers . it is not a level field now

Are you suggesting that in some workplaces, there are so many employees who work directly for management that they could swing the vote toward not unionizing? In that case, it seems likely a majority of employees would continue to work directly for management at that workplace whether it was unionized or not. Shouldn't it be up to the majority of employees in that workplace to determine whether or not to unionize?

If their position in the workplace would preclude them becoming members of the union anyway, simply exclude them from the vote and allow the rest of the employees to vote in a secret ballot.

It seems very wrong in a democratic society to expect everyone to "go public" with their vote.

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Re: NDP plan to make forming union easier and fair

Postby Veovis » Jun 19th, 2017, 7:44 am

You see rustled if you ban, prevent and bully each specific group of people until only a few people will actually vote and they all agree how to vote you have "democracy"

It's the same type of democracy that we had when women and minorities weren't allowed to vote, yet these people feel they are "progressive".

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Re: Ndp plan to make forming union easier and fair

Postby Rwede » Jun 19th, 2017, 7:58 am

maryjane48 wrote:yes but in secret ballots you could have people who actualy work for managment mixed in with other workers. i also was a member in good standing and saw my so called fellow union members in few cases working for managment in a direct way .





Err, wouldn't the union only hand out ballots to eligible employees, the same as they'd hand out union checkoffs for an open vote?

Or are the unions so bloody incompetent that they walk upstairs and hand ballots out to managers, too?

Your rationale is, well, irrational.
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Re: Ndp plan to make forming union easier and fair

Postby LordEd » Jun 19th, 2017, 8:15 am

maryjane48 wrote:um lord 3d if you fire someone for having a signed card are you able to pay the wrongfull dismissal fines ? if not i do not suggest you do that [icon_lol2.gif]
No wrongful dismissal. You give notice for no cause termination.

Nobody is required to keep an employee for any reason. There's just a cost to terminating the relationship.

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Re: NDP plan to make forming union easier and fair

Postby LordEd » Jun 19th, 2017, 8:20 am

Who are these people working for in this place they are looking to unionize?

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Re: NDP plan to make forming union easier and fair

Postby LordEd » Jun 19th, 2017, 9:00 am

http://edmontonjournal.com/opinion/colu ... ion-drives

Back in 2013, a union organizer strolled into Alberta’s provincial labour board office and plunked down some cards signed by employees at an undisclosed workplace.

The union official claimed the cards indicated 100 per cent of the employees at the workplace supported joining the union. Not long afterwards, the Alberta Labour Relations Board conducted a secret ballot vote among the employees to determine if they truly wanted to join the union. Surprisingly, not a single employee voted in favour of joining the union.
...
In 2015, a similar situation unfolded – twice. In both instances, the unions once again claimed to the Alberta Labour Relations Board that every employee, at two different workplaces, had signed cards in favour of joining the respective unions. However, when employees at both workplaces were later given a chance to vote privately on the matter, only 25 per cent voted to join the union.

...

David Deighton, noted “… late one night, two very large union organizers visited my home and tried to get me to sign a union card. They indicated that all my fellow coworkers had signed and so should I.”

How would you feel if two ‘very large’ men popped by your house ‘late at night’ and encouraged you to sign something? Imagine if you were new to Canada and didn’t speak English fluently – or perhaps if you were a single mom and living alone. Would you sign their card?



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Re: NDP plan to make forming union easier and fair

Postby Old Techie » Jun 19th, 2017, 10:20 am

^ Kind of shines a different light on union shenanigans, but certainly not a surprising one. Vile self serving entities they be!
"Fools multiply when wise men are silent!" - Nelson Mandela

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