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Blame Christy Clark!

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Re: Blame Christy Clark!

Postby Urbane » Jul 16th, 2017, 9:35 pm

    flamingfingers wrote:Urbane wrote:
    Ah... so now you have changed your mind about Christy stepping down from her leadership role of the ChristyLiberals. Something you have mentioned here from time to time. Now you say that Christy has done nothing wrong, yet her caucus is blaming her for their loss?

    Any elected person is putting themselves out there for criticism, rightly or wrongly - how many posts have we seen that accused other leaders of other political parties accused of being 'stupid', 'brain dead', 'communist', 'ruled by unions' , fixing backroom deals' & on and on.

I haven't changed my position at all. Nor have you. You've been consistent. You've opposed every single thing that Christy Clark has ever done or said and I don't think I've ever seen anyone who despises a politician more than you despise her.

It's time for Christy Clark to step aside but she's been a success. As I've said previously, she won an unwinnable election in 2013, and totally out-campaigned your leader Adrian Dix. She also won the May election and fell just one seat short of a majority but as we know Andrew Weaver ignored historical convention and decided to team up with the party that finished second. So be it but Clark deserves a lot of credit for hanging in there and winning the election.

Christy Clark was a successful premier who kept her coalition together while presiding over the strongest economy in the country. On top of that our healthcare outcomes are amongst the best in the country and our education outcomes are some of the best in the entire world. Impressive! John Horgan has big shoes to fill!

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Re: Blame Christy Clark!

Postby maryjane48 » Jul 16th, 2017, 9:41 pm

a success at what urb ? getting folks to commit suicide ? well we know she managed get one person to do it . spend 150 milloon us on useless courtcase ? yup . deleting emails like clintons twin ? yup . hiring criminals ? yup ala laura miller .


yea your right shes a over achiever in those depts :130:
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Re: Blame Christy Clark!

Postby Old Techie » Jul 17th, 2017, 9:11 am

*removed*
Last edited by ferri on Jul 17th, 2017, 10:20 am, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Making it personal
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Re: Blame Christy Clark!

Postby Merry » Jul 17th, 2017, 10:23 am

Much of the discussion in this thread is a perfect example of exactly what is wrong with BC politics. Those on either side of the political divide are so firmly entrenched in their respective partisan positions that serious debate about the issues is practically impossible.

The fact is that there are good and bad features about each of the political Party Platforms. None are completely without merit, and none are totally bad. Ditto for the characteristics of each of the Party's Leaders. There is good and bad in everyone, and the Party Leaders are no different.

I like to believe that most folks who go into politics (even those I disagree with) do so because they want to improve the lives of the folks they represent. They are not bad people. Yes, I do think that some of the policies they propose are misguided, but for every policy I don't like, there are lots of folks who do. So it's all a matter of personal opinion. But that doesn't mean that those proposing policies we disagree with are bad people.

That said, we all know that there are always a FEW rotten apples in EVERY barrel, and those types need to be found and weeded out. But there are some of those in EVERY political Party, not just the Party we disagree with. It is up to each Party to find and weed out their own problem members, but all too often they fail to do so.
"In a world swathed in political correctness, the voting booth remains the final sanctuary where the people are free to speak" - Clifford Orwin

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Re: Blame Christy Clark!

Postby hobbyguy » Jul 17th, 2017, 10:34 am

MJ - you bring up the NDP's despicable political exploitation use of someone's personal tragedy again?

Such use of someone's personal tragedy for political purposes is not only disingenuous, it simply highlights the ethical and moral bankruptcy of the NDP.

That is not to diminish that individual's personal tragedy.

Wrongful dismissals are never pleasant - but stuff happens. Thousands of wrongful dismissal cases are settled every year. That is because no large organization, corporate or government or NGO is without some "bad actor" management people.

Most are able to move on from wrongful dismissal. Unfortunately this particular individual could not, and that is tragic, and I feel for his family.

The NDP abuse of that tragedy to help them create the false narrative straw man image of premier Clark is entirely abhorrent.
We can have democracy in this country, or we can have great wealth concentrated in the hands of a few, but we can't have both. - Louis D. Brandeis

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Re: Blame Christy Clark!

Postby The Green Barbarian » Jul 17th, 2017, 12:20 pm

maryjane48 wrote:a success at what urb ? getting folks to commit suicide ?


This nonsense about Christy Clark causing someone to commit suicide is just so tired.
Paying a traitor $10.5 million is the last straw. #justinnotmyprimeminister #scheerin2019 #2019electionpleasecomesoon

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Re: Blame Christy Clark!

Postby hobbyguy » Jul 17th, 2017, 12:45 pm

Merry - I agree with you.

That's why I like half of the Green platform and half of the Liberal platform. Balance.

In terms of the BC NDP they start with 3 strikes against them.

Well, 2-1/2 strikes. The Dave Barrett bunch did have a plan for governance. Dave actually gave us some good things coming out of the plan for governance that he was a leading figure in. The ALR, ICBC, the Labour Relations Board. Dave's failure was in lack of balance - which showed up in an inability to balance the budget. Crooks within the party, like Stupich, and radicals mouthing off, finished his short lived NDP government.

With Mike Harcourt, the NDP had a competent leader. Some haywire ideas, but essentially competent, except that once again balance and budgeting escaped him, and the crooks and radicals within the party finished him off - again.

The Glen Clark NDP governance period was, well, atrocious. Not surprisingly. The NDP continued their imbalanced approach to policy, and it showed in disastrously weak economic and jobs performances, as well as a complete inability to manage the budget. Glen Clark himself has proven that it was not so much him that "couldn't manage a popcorn stand", but the party itself - the NDP. A collection of competing power cliques and ideologues does not a party make.

So from the perspective of a reasoning person, wanting better governance, the NDP goes forth with a terrible reputation at providing good governance. What has changed? Very little. The power player names, Dix, Horgan, Sihota, Clark, Sanford, even Miller - still there and ascendant.

Horgan said that the party had to move past being the "vanguard of protest". Carole James tried that - and got backstabbed. So we still have an NDP party with unionist roots, that is the "vanguard of protest", and without balance. Leadership is a necessary element for balance to be achieved. John Horgan did NOT want to be the "leader" of the BC NDP. In point of fact, the BC NDP experienced a dearth of candidates for their leadership - "no you take it", "no I don't want it", "here YOU take it", "I don't want it either".

Thus, as we could clearly see in the 2017 BC NDP platform, there is no balance, no priorities, never even a half hearted attempt to cost the platform, no attempt at a budget, no attempt at a taxation plan, no plan for governance. A pretense that "you can have everything you want for free". And 118 pages of "we hate Christy" personal attacks. Not that some of the grievances within the platform are not valid. It is just that without planned solutions and implementation plans, the results are guaranteed to be a mess. It is like baking bread, everything has to be in balance, the ingredients, the measures, the times, the temperatures etc. or the results will be a gooey mess.

It was apparent that the NDP platform platform had no "recipe". That's why it leaned so heavily on trying to personally attack premier Clark. The NDP platform itself would not stand up to scrutiny. The tactic, and it worked to an extent, was to get people to "look over there - it that nasty wicked witch of the west on her broom", and not pay attention to the obvious inadequacy of the BC NDP.
We can have democracy in this country, or we can have great wealth concentrated in the hands of a few, but we can't have both. - Louis D. Brandeis
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Re: Blame Christy Clark!

Postby Urbane » Jul 17th, 2017, 1:02 pm

    Merry wrote:Much of the discussion in this thread is a perfect example of exactly what is wrong with BC politics. Those on either side of the political divide are so firmly entrenched in their respective partisan positions that serious debate about the issues is practically impossible.

    The fact is that there are good and bad features about each of the political Party Platforms. None are completely without merit, and none are totally bad. Ditto for the characteristics of each of the Party's Leaders. There is good and bad in everyone, and the Party Leaders are no different.

    I like to believe that most folks who go into politics (even those I disagree with) do so because they want to improve the lives of the folks they represent. They are not bad people. Yes, I do think that some of the policies they propose are misguided, but for every policy I don't like, there are lots of folks who do. So it's all a matter of personal opinion. But that doesn't mean that those proposing policies we disagree with are bad people.

    That said, we all know that there are always a FEW rotten apples in EVERY barrel, and those types need to be found and weeded out. But there are some of those in EVERY political Party, not just the Party we disagree with. It is up to each Party to find and weed out their own problem members, but all too often they fail to do so.
Well said Merry. To a large extent what you say applies to politics in general and is part of the reason that so many people are turned off and tuned out. BC is particularly polarized and the recent election results are evidence of that. All we can do is hope that people will be a little more realistic and a little less antagonistic when evaluating parties and their leaders.

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Re: Blame Christy Clark!

Postby Hurtlander » Jul 17th, 2017, 2:01 pm

Urbane wrote: All we can do is hope that people will be a little more realistic and a little less antagonistic when evaluating parties and their leaders.

Give it a rest. What you really mean is you want people to accept your version of reality and to be less antagonistic while discussing Christy Clark and/ or the BC Liberals...the most illiterate among are fully aware that it's year round, 24/7 open season on John Horgan and the NDP...there's one long-winded poster here who blames every bad thing that's ever happened in his entire life on the NDP, until you convince that character to be more realistic and less antagonistic, you won't be taken seriously in your attempt to get people to pull their punches.
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Re: Blame Christy Clark!

Postby Urbane » Jul 17th, 2017, 2:15 pm

    Hurtlander wrote:Give it a rest. What you really mean is you want people to accept your version of reality and to be less antagonistic while discussing Christy Clark and/ or the BC Liberals...the most illiterate among are fully aware that it's year round, 24/7 open season on John Horgan and the NDP...there's one long-winded poster here who blames every bad thing that's ever happened in his entire life on the NDP, until you convince that character to be more realistic and less antagonistic, you won't be taken seriously in your attempt to get people to pull their punches.

No, that's definitely not what I really mean. If you were right I wouldn't have been so critical of Christy Clark and the Liberals myself. I agree with Merry. Every party and every leader have positives and negatives and I'm sure that I'll agree with some things that the NDP end up doing and disagree with others. I certainly don't intend to behave as some of Clark's critics on here have and automatically be critical of anything and everything that John Horgan does. If Horgan governs like NDP premier Gary Doer did in Manitoba I might end up agreeing with him a lot but if he governs like the NDP did in BC during the 1990's I'll end up disagreeing with him a lot. Time will tell.

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Re: Blame Christy Clark!

Postby flamingfingers » Jul 17th, 2017, 5:53 pm

Horgan hasn't even been sworn in yet but already the attacks have begun - many on this forum alone. Calling Horgan "stupid, a usurper, not up to speed, a job-killer, blah de blah....." In a very short time we will see the MSM awake from their 16-year-long coma to report and spin every single item that can be blown out of proportion to discredit this new government. Just watch.....

And as far as you, Urbane, being "critical of Christy Clark and the Liberals" - yes, you really tried to cut their throats with a feather!
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Re: Blame Christy Clark!

Postby hobbyguy » Jul 17th, 2017, 6:06 pm

ummm, Liberals 43, NDP 41, Green 3. 43 is greater than 41. Our democratic convention is that the party with the most seats won. Does usurp not fit that description?

Funny how the partisans who were so willing to unfairly and personally attack premier Clark are sooo touchy.

The criticisms of John Horgan are factual. Ain't said he is stupid. He said himself he did not want to lead the NDP. It was John Horgan who stated that the NDP had to move past being "the vanguard of protest". Has the NDP moved past being the "vanguard of protest"? Under John Horgan's leadership? It appears not. But that isn't John's fault. I suspect the BC NDP are simply not leadable.
We can have democracy in this country, or we can have great wealth concentrated in the hands of a few, but we can't have both. - Louis D. Brandeis

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Re: Blame Christy Clark!

Postby LordEd » Jul 17th, 2017, 6:13 pm

So what's your positive reasoning for him to schedule the swearing in the same day as the premier meeting?
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Re: Blame Christy Clark!

Postby flamingfingers » Jul 17th, 2017, 6:14 pm

Well, hobbyguy, maybe instead of getting your exercise leaping to conclusions you could perhaps tone down your rhetoric and adopt an attitude of 'innocent until proven guilty" instead of 'guilty because I said so" , eh?
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Re: Blame Christy Clark!

Postby flamingfingers » Jul 17th, 2017, 6:24 pm

LordEd wrote:So what's your positive reasoning for him to schedule the swearing in the same day as the premier meeting?


The Premier's meetings are scheduled July 17-19. The availability of Government House, the Lt Governor and many other dignitaries are required to attend the swearing in. A swearing ceremony is not really like calling a meeting for Legion #22 in Woodbine. And who really knows whether or not he will attend on July 19?

Why didn't Christy attend on July 17 and 18? She is premier until the swearing is completed late afternoon tomorrow, June 18.

What is your positive reasoning for her not attending?
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