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Fortis to rent solar panels to citizens

Re: Fortis to rent solar panels to citizens

Postby Smurf » Oct 12th, 2017, 7:09 am

I would really like some people, maryjane48, Cactusflower, Omnitheo, Butcher99, flamingfingers and any others that wish to, to tell us if they will be or would rent a Fortis solar panel and pay about 21/2 times the current rates if they have or could have the opportunity. I know there is no way for us to tell but PLEASE be truthful. Also remember that you are only renting you do not own your own little taxpayers share of the infrastructure like you do with BC hydro and site C.

Also do you believe it is right that if they are not all rented or probably some other reasons they end up more expensive, that every Fortis customer will be charged a fee to pay for it.

I will tell you right now that I would never get involved with this scam and am extremely happy that I am not a Fortis customer because it is going to get expensive. This should be a real warning that site C had better proceed as fast as possible.
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Re: Fortis to rent solar panels to citizens

Postby Smurf » Oct 12th, 2017, 7:16 am

Omnitheo wrote:

I can find no way to make sense of your response to the quoted message.

As for Solar, yeah these panels aren’t cheap, so I doubt anyone is going to rent them. As for actually purchasing and installing solar panels, it’s a long term investment that could take a decade to pay off with the current rate of electricity and cost of panels. That said, the price of the panels decreases every year as they become more mass produced, and meanwhile the cost of electricity continues to rise every year. Soon there will be a point where it becomes cheaper. Already as we’re approaching that point, the solar industry has been booming. In the US 2016 saw a 95% growth over 2015. Worldwide saw a 50% growth.


Maybe you can give us some insight into when the cheaper point will come. Solar has been around for decades and yes it is improving but that will come an end. Can you predict when that will be and if it will ever actually be a feasible alternative for large scale grid systems. As of right now it has been proven it is not even close in the real world.
Consider how hard it is to change yourself and you'll understand what little chance you have of changing others.

The happiest of people don't necessarily have the best of everything, they just make the most of everything that comes their way.

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Re: Fortis to rent solar panels to citizens

Postby Omnitheo » Oct 12th, 2017, 11:26 am

I thought I had made it clear that I felt these rentals were too expensive. I may consider solar in the future, but for now I am working mostly out of town and generally only home during weekends. Perhaps though once the price goes down, I could look into it knowing that most of the electricity could be expended back into the grid instead of being used personally.

As for your second post, it appears that time may be fast approaching even sooner than I realized just based on a small bit of research I’ve done. (I haven’t had a lot of time today to research fully)

Bloomberg Business writes
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... -you-think

Solar power, once so costly it only made economic sense in spaceships, is becoming cheap enough that it will push coal and even natural-gas plants out of business faster than previously forecast.

That’s the conclusion of a Bloomberg New Energy Finance outlook for how fuel and electricity markets will evolve by 2040. The research group estimated solar already rivals the cost of new coal power plants in Germany and the U.S. and by 2021 will do so in quick-growing markets such as China and India.


They’re basically forecasting solar to become cheaper than coal in China and India during the 2020’s and for solar and wind to make up 50% of global power by 2040, up from 12% now.
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Re: Fortis to rent solar panels to citizens

Postby Smurf » Oct 12th, 2017, 11:38 am

Thanks for answering Omnitheo. Make sure when you are researching you are taking everything into consideration and not just the of panels. Do you want batteries, are you hooking to the grid and what will that cost etc etc. I also hope it is calculated without any subsidies etc if you are trying to compare to something like site C. Hopefully we won't end up with a whole bunch more small IPP's where the people that can afford it are selling to the grid at premium prices during the time of day that the market price is low. Even Fortis is leaving the door open to charge all it's customers for their solar project if it can't pay for itself. I would really hate for the average British Columbian who can't afford to go that way to be put into energy poverty by the few that can but as of right now as far as I know that is happening everywhere alternatives have been tried on a large scale.
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Re: Fortis to rent solar panels to citizens

Postby Omnitheo » Oct 12th, 2017, 11:55 am

We are most fortunate to live in a province with an abundance of power options, particularly hydro-electric. I can see however why there is opposition. Hydro-electric power requires a significant investment of territory. Indeed from space you can see a ring of lakes where once there were rivers. That said, if these new lakes provide new ecosystems, then it’s still preferable to altering large landscapes for the purpose of resource extraction.
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Re: Fortis to rent solar panels to citizens

Postby hobbyguy » Oct 12th, 2017, 12:37 pm

Omni - the real world economics of solar and wind are only very loosely related to the production cost.

- transmission costs are much higher
- distribution cost are much higher
- wind and solar are unable to meet peak demands which introduces storage costs
- wind and solar are short lived technologies requiring 5 times the replacement cycle of things like dams
- solar has a very low capacity factor in BC, roughly 11-12% in the southern part, so you have to build about 9 times as much capacity as people think to get what you want.
- wind power has a typical capacity of 38%, so you have to build 2-1/2 times as much as people think you need

All of THAT is why solar and wind advocates never talk about anything but the production cost per nameplate capacity. That means nothing. What matters is the cost of electricity delivered where you want it and when you want it.

It is also why nobody opposed to site C has been able to answer this simple challenge:

Please post a link to a windy-solar non synchronous grid jurisdiction that has abundant, reliable, renewable and affordable electricity without subsidies.

Once you get past the snake oil advertising from wind and solar advocates and do that search, you with find that wind solar don't work in grid situations.

The closest to meeting those criteria is Denmark, which is the only such jurisdiction that is finally removing subsidies - at the price of $.44/kWh - which is not affordable and creates tons of problems with energy poverty.
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Re: Fortis to rent solar panels to citizens

Postby maryjane48 » Oct 12th, 2017, 1:03 pm

its clear who fortis is trying to target and it isnt the avg homeowner. so its silly to try and make that comparisan . the point is that fortis does see a market for it as they wouldnt do it other wise . fortis doesnt have a track record of losing money. .

the comparisan to be made is 400 000 houses made solar by the govt vs a dam . what is better for the homeowner and the enviroment . first off floooding more land is huge negative . killing 40 percent the fish is another minus. paying forty million a year to truck the remaining 60 percent past the dam is not green or cost effective . more negatives . customers still a slave to utility more negative.


the other side the coin is energy freedom for 400000 homes . :130:
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Re: Fortis to rent solar panels to citizens

Postby Old Techie » Oct 12th, 2017, 2:23 pm

maryjane48 wrote: the other side the coin is energy freedom for 400000 homes . :130:


You keep repeating that "energy freedom" catch phrase, but have you installed your solar system yet and gone off the grid? Thought not.

How about those Fortis panels, how many of those you plan on renting? None! Thought so.
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Re: Fortis to rent solar panels to citizens

Postby Smurf » Oct 12th, 2017, 2:34 pm

MJ are you going to be purchasing it at 21/2 times the cost or would you purchase it if you could. Will you be mad if all of Fortis's customers get dinged a premium because it can't support itself or will you be happy with the poor paying for the rich.

EDIT TO ADD:
Also remember that everyone is paying for Fortis's infrastructure and getting nothing. With site C we all own the infastructure not some for profit company. We also own the profits which the government has been syphoning off instead of charging you more taxes and they still keep their costs lower than Fortis before they add 21/2 times for solar. I'll take site C any time.
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Re: Fortis to rent solar panels to citizens

Postby Even Steven » Oct 12th, 2017, 2:56 pm

Sounds kinda dumb.

They want their customers to pay for their infrastructure? It sounds like they don't want to risk money on this pilot project and looking for other people to fund it. If everything goes well - great, they'll build more. If not - other people are paying for it.

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Re: Fortis to rent solar panels to citizens

Postby hobbyguy » Oct 12th, 2017, 3:27 pm

maryjane48 wrote:its clear who fortis is trying to target and it isnt the avg homeowner. so its silly to try and make that comparisan . the point is that fortis does see a market for it as they wouldnt do it other wise . fortis doesnt have a track record of losing money. .

the comparisan to be made is 400 000 houses made solar by the govt vs a dam . what is better for the homeowner and the enviroment . first off floooding more land is huge negative . killing 40 percent the fish is another minus. paying forty million a year to truck the remaining 60 percent past the dam is not green or cost effective . more negatives . customers still a slave to utility more negative.


the other side the coin is energy freedom for 400000 homes . :130:


Yes, it is abundantly clear who Fortis is targeting. Math challenged virtue signalers who don't know a amp from an ohm, so they gullibly get sucked into advertising gimmickry - which the solar industry is very, very good at. Fortis could paint pieces of plywood black, randomly attach wires to nowhere, and that crowd would sign on. [icon_lol2.gif]
We can have democracy in this country, or we can have great wealth concentrated in the hands of a few, but we can't have both. - Louis D. Brandeis

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Re: Fortis to rent solar panels to citizens

Postby Old Techie » Oct 12th, 2017, 3:47 pm

hobbyguy wrote: Fortis could paint pieces of plywood black, randomly attach wires to nowhere, and that crowd would sign on. [icon_lol2.gif]


:200: :200: :200: hobbyguy you weren't supposed to expose the plan. [icon_lol2.gif]


May as well sell my Fortis shares now. :biggrin:
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Re: Fortis to rent solar panels to citizens

Postby hobbyguy » Oct 12th, 2017, 3:53 pm

Still trying to figure out how Mr. & Mrs. Virtue Signaler are going to be able to tell if the electrons coming into their house came from their leased virtual solar panel [icon_lol2.gif]

Maybe stick their fingers in a light socket and see if they come out green? [icon_lol2.gif]
We can have democracy in this country, or we can have great wealth concentrated in the hands of a few, but we can't have both. - Louis D. Brandeis

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Re: Fortis to rent solar panels to citizens

Postby seewood » Oct 12th, 2017, 4:04 pm

Oh, how I wish Fortis and BC Hydro could go over this thread......
I think some like wrestling in mud with pigs.....

hobbyguy wrote:Fortis could paint pieces of plywood black, randomly attach wires to nowhere, and that crowd would sign on.


Priceless :130:
I am not wealthy but I am rich

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Re: Fortis to rent solar panels to citizens

Postby maryjane48 » Oct 12th, 2017, 6:14 pm

facts are fortis sees the future. tgem and bc hydro will be saying you want to keep sucking the govt utility teet then be prepared to pay for comunnistic power while rest of the world uses true green power they made themselves :130:
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