Minimum wage

[rustled]

We will always have students and PWDs and seniors and others who are already being supported but need jobs for various reasons. We will always have marginal, risky people who deserve to be given the opportunity to earn while gaining job experience and contributing to their communities.

I get why some folk think any employer who hires marginal, risky or inexperienced people and gives them the chance they, too, deserve, investing in these people and offering them an opportunity to improve their lives, is simply "gaming the system" for their own bottom line. These folk have never walked a step in my sister's shoes, or the shoes of her co workers (who helped her learn the ropes and continue to accommodate her quirks.) These folk can easily disregard the what reduced opportunities for employment would truly mean for those who do not need a living wage, but do need to work.

[Poindexter]

If I'm reading your post correctly, people with disabilities are the exception to the rule and shouldn't be the determining factor on setting the minimum wage. My posts are about motivating those who are able bodied and employable but have decided welfare is a preferable option to getting a job.

[rustled]

You've added this while I was typing out my response:

... We should also set aside the notion that service jobs that pay minimum are just jobs for those who are marginal or just starting out. In a perfect world that would be the case but check out the average age of those that serve you the next time you buy your coffee at Timmie's.

It seems to me you're presuming a few things, though. One assumption is that everyone of a certain age needs enough to support themselves on. Another is that an employer like Tim Horton's will continue to employ just as many people for just as many hours, if everyone earns $15 an hour. Another is that anyone working at Tim Horton's is making minimum wage, or that most of them are. Even the service jobs that do start out at minimum wage, don't necessarily stay there. My sister has earned better than minimum wage for quite some time now. But I'd guess most people would make similar assumptions about my sister, and about how much she should be paid for doing what she does, too, without recognizing how difficult it would have been for her employer to take a chance on her if he'd been forced to pay enough for her to live on, whether she needed it or not.

[rustled]

If I'm reading your post correctly, people with disabilities are the exception to the rule and shouldn't be the determining factor on setting the minimum wage. My posts are about motivating those who are able bodied and employable but have decided welfare is a preferable option to getting a job.

Actually, no. There's no need to treat them as an exception. They are part of a large group of people who don't need a job to provide enough to live on. I'd include people who want to supplement a pension. Youth still living at home (my son was reminding me how tough it was for himself and his peers to get a job after graduation, with no experience. Even the 7-11 preferred to hire more mature people with more experience.) Parents whose spouse's income supports the family, and they want to work at something very flexible for a short or long term to pay for "extras" like vacations, something where there's not a lot of responsibility.

I'd suggest that when able-bodied people decide welfare is a preferable option to getting a job, jacking up the minimum wage will do little to make them think differently.

[Poindexter]

We hired a disabled woman years ago in our family business and she became heart and soul of the company in no time. Her perspective on what work meant was unique and contagious. The obstacles she had to overcome just to put in a days work made our issues seem trivial. She had her bad days like all of us but she was inspirational because there was never a moment when she wasn't giving it her all. We wondered what we did before she joined us.

Truthfully I can't recall how the minimum wage factored into our decision to hire her but I suspect it has little effect, and certainly wouldn't have had afterwards. Either way I commend your sister's employers for taking a chance on her but I suspect they're just as grateful to have her as she is to have the job.

[rustled]

Yes, they do appreciate her. I know, though, it's unlikely they would have been able to take the chance and make the accommodations required to get her to where she is today, if they'd had to pay her enough for her to live on. They're still unable to expect some of the things they'd expect from others with her years' experience, so if the minimum wage were to go to $15 tomorrow, which would mean now she'd be earning a few dollars an hour more than that, I'm sure they'd have to consider whether or not they ought to replace her with someone who could do all of the things she can't. I'd like to think they'd keep her on, but I wouldn't hold it against them if they couldn't.

[HorganIsMyHero]

The fear of risking the safety net (and being worse off simply for trying to be as independent as possible) is a significant impediment to financial independence, and it makes inefficient use of our resources.

People should really have access to basic medication and dental benefits. it really is sad a person can be better off on social assistance + benefits than working + no benefits depending on the situation and the person's health.

[hobbyguy]

Actually it is quite an interesting fact that WAC Bennett fought for dental care to be included in the Canada Health Act - but unfortunately he lost that fight.

Interesting article by David Bond about the minimum wage controversy in this morning's paper. He points out that there are indeed negative consequences on the number of jobs and available hours of work to raising the minimum wage - especially for small business. He also points out that there are MUCH better ways to improve the prosperity of those on the lower rungs of the income scale, but those require a lot of work, careful long term planning, and just don't have the "instant gratification" of a flashy "see, we did something" minimum wage jump - especially for politicians looking to buff their appearances.

In essence, David Bond is calling out Wynne in particular for policies that have failed the average person, and for not working on the long term programs needed to support lower rung income earners.

[Merry]

A friend sent me this, and it definitely provides food for thought when considering the minimum wage issue:


https://d3n8a8pro7vhmx.cloudfront.net/d ... 1512753586

[Smurf]

Anyone watching Global BC tonight? they interviewed the owner of the Tomahawk Restaurant in Vancouver tonight and he said he has been closing at 4 pm since late Dec due to short staff. He pays $20.00 an hour for kitchen staff and can't even get students. And we have people on unemployment and welfare, Absolutely ridiculous!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[HorganIsMyHero]

He pays $20.00 an hour for kitchen staff and can't even get students. And we have people on unemployment and welfare, Absolutely ridiculous!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

What's ridiculous is that people jump to conclusions to blame the welfare recipients. Did you not stop to consider that this guy might be allowing a toxic workplace that no one wants to touch? Is he actually paying $20/h or just saying that and then when people get their cheque and it's like $12/h he just says "too bad?" Yes this happens. What about management capabilities? Is he actually calling people for shifts and scheduling them accordingly?

There's a reason low-skill jobs paying almost double minimum wage aren't attracting staff and it's quite often something to do with a hostile or extremely inept atmospheres and less to do with people being lazy and not looking for work.

[Catsumi]

Yes, Smurf, did catch that news item where the restaunter couldn't find staff at $20.00 per hour.

The question that I have pondered over for several weeks now is the utter chaos that the Phoenix Payroll System ( to pay federal employees for their invaluable work) has created. Some employees are being paid two or three times what they should be getting, whilst others get zip.

The latter are the folks we should be going to for advice as they have been living on air for how long now, two years or so?

Now, these people REALLY understand how to pinch pennies and amazingly, they still attend to their duties.

We have plenty to learn from those peeps.



(As a side issue, all those being overpaid....will those monies ever be returned to the federal treasury, or, will it all just vanish into that great maw that we know as government waste?)





Horgan, just noticed your post and have to ask....do you have a job?

[alanjh595]

What's ridiculous is that people jump to conclusions to blame the welfare recipients. Did you not stop to consider that this guy might be allowing a toxic workplace that no one wants to touch? Is he actually paying $20/h or just saying that and then when people get their cheque and it's like $12/h he just says "too bad?" Yes this happens. What about management capabilities? Is he actually calling people for shifts and scheduling them accordingly?

There's a reason low-skill jobs paying almost double minimum wage aren't attracting staff and it's quite often something to do with a hostile or extremely inept atmospheres and less to do with people being lazy and not looking for work.

How would a new hire or a potential candidate know this?

[hobbyguy]

A friend sent me this, and it definitely provides food for thought when considering the minimum wage issue:


https://d3n8a8pro7vhmx.cloudfront.net/d ... 1512753586

The problem with minimum wage increases is that it won't do anything to address that, and the same time will penalize small business owners who just barely make a decent living. Big minimum wage increases don't address the issue, and they really won't help anyone much in long run. Social housing, tuition credits for low income retraining/education etc., those actually do start to address the issue, and without the negatives.

As far as I'm concerned, it is time to add very high very top income tax brackets and use those funds to start building social housing, fund tuition credits etc.

[Smurf]

HorganIsMyHero wrote:

What's ridiculous is that people jump to conclusions to blame the welfare recipients. Did you not stop to consider that this guy might be allowing a toxic workplace that no one wants to touch? Is he actually paying $20/h or just saying that and then when people get their cheque and it's like $12/h he just says "too bad?" Yes this happens. What about management capabilities? Is he actually calling people for shifts and scheduling them accordingly?

There's a reason low-skill jobs paying almost double minimum wage aren't attracting staff and it's quite often something to do with a hostile or extremely inept atmospheres and less to do with people being lazy and not looking for work.

You could be right but somehow after 92 years I would think they probably know what they are doing. Possible again management has changed but don't know.

However if I was out of work I would work for anyone for $20.00 an hour long before I would be on welfare or anything else. Those safety nets are not there for people who want to be able to choose the job they like. They are there for the people who actually need it. I was never really in need of a job as I always had one but I did work a second job more than once to get ahead. Driving taxi, changing tires in a garage, cleaning barns on a farm and others. The world is not here to provide you with the job you want at the salary you expect. It is up to you to work and get those things yourself unless there are extenuating circumstances preventing you from doing it. BOOHOO he's hard to work for is not one of those circumstances.

Here is the interview I was talking about.

https://globalnews.ca/video/3969564/ser ... r-shortage

Catsumi I agree 100% about th Phoenix system. Someone should be suing the butt off the government after all this time.