Have the teachers got you fooled yet?

[friedemann]

Teachers are saying as of late "with all the school closures- how can the children learn when the government won't?" or something along that line....remember that when you vote.
Excuse me, I am one of the "educated people" out here. Schooling is mandatory- we are not a bunch in ignorant ingrates. We understand it is all about the money. And only that. Teachers wages are the major cost of education.
They like their cushy jobs where they are refusing to hand out government exams to test the students general knowledge throughout the regions. Why are they refusing? They say they don't get paid to do that.
Try again. We have gone through the school system. You are trying to fool educated people. The government exams test the work efforts of the various teachers - are they doing their job?
We(joe public) get evaluations at work on our performance and effort and get either a raise or fired.
Why should it not be the same for the teachers? Your teaching skills are lacking when the students average low marks. Then you do not deserve the cushy job and pay raises.

The teachers say their work is not "cushy". They have to work more than 40 hours a week.

Give me a break. We all have to work more than 40 hours for much less.

I also note that I do not see them quitting to dig ditches or do something physical.

[Piecemaker]

I think an issue with standardized tests is that they do not make allowances for cultural or soci-economic factors that may affect the test scores. Learning (and therefore teaching) needs to be relevent for the learner and supported by parents/caregivers.
Standardized tests, like Provincial Exams for High School, tend to cause teaching to become test focussed. Meaning the students are taught in a way to improve their test scores, but not necessarily to provide them with optimum learning.

[Al Czervic]

But how do we even have the opportunity to know about socio-economic factors? We only know about them because mandatory FSA tests have revealed them; and this is precisely why they are so critically important.

Our society has much to learn about socio-economic factors and how those very conditions can affect students achievement opportunities. Rather than irresponsibly and self-servingly campaigning against the FSA tests; the BCTF should instead embrace them. Indeed if “kids matter and teacher’s really do care” (as is the BCTF motto) how about spending all of those tax deductable Union dues to campaign for added support to our most vulnerable schools.

But no; in reality the BCTF could care less; they would rather focus on closed schools because closed schools ultimately mean fewer teachers; who of course pay those hefty BCTF Union dues. Funny how the BCTF always mentions fewer schools but never mentions the fact that there are fewer students.

The FSA tests only test students for what is on the curriculum; any teacher who suggests you have to “teach” to the test is a liar. FSA tests basic skills that all students should have by Grade 4 and Grade 7. The BCTF selectively promotes that 85% of teachers voted against the FSA; but what they will not tell you is that only roughly 50% of eligible teachers bothered to come out and vote. You can imagine how the other 50 % feels.

The BCTF once again demonstrates that they are nothing more than a sad and pathetic group of self serving unionists who would rather put Union concerns ahead of your child’s education. Pathetic and disappointing and as always doing a disservice to the good teachers to help cover up for the incompetents who do not belong in the classroom.

The upside is that this irresponsible campaign has finally shown British Columbians just how far the BCTF will stoop to try and screw over our children just to protect incompetent dues paying teachers who do not belong in the classroom.

[steven lloyd]

Teachers are saying as of late "with all the school closures- how can the children learn when the government won't?" or something along that line....remember that when you vote. Excuse me, I am one of the "educated people" out here. Schooling is mandatory- we are not a bunch in ignorant ingrates. We understand it is all about the money. And only that. Teachers wages are the major cost of education. They like their cushy jobs where they are refusing to hand out government exams to test the students general knowledge throughout the regions.

Wow. First you say you are ‘one of the educated people”, and then you describe a teacher’s job as cushy. I never really appreciated how “educated” people could make such ignorant statements. I suppose it could only be because you don’t have a f*#%ing clue what you’re talking about.

Our society has much to learn about socio-economic factors ...

There can be little argument here. One only has to look at the outcome of our last two provincial elections to appreciate how much our society has to learn about socio-economic factors.

The BCTF once again demonstrates that they are nothing more than a sad and pathetic group of self serving unionists who would rather put Union concerns ahead of your child’s education.

Yes, unions bad – Gordon Campbell good. If only you could recognize the pathetic irony of your argument.

[Nebula]

Yes, unions bad – Gordon Campbell good. If only you could recognize the pathetic irony of your argument.

One need not be a Campbell cheerleader to have a genuine (and some would say warranted) distaste for the BCTF.

I too saw the recent BCTF ad, which decries the closure of 170+ schools in the province. I too noticed there was no mention about decreasing student populations.

There are many people who believe the BCTF has gotten far too big for its britches and is an example of what happens when a union gets too powerful and full of itself. Yes, Virginia, there are really are bad unions out there.

[steven lloyd]

There are many people who believe the BCTF has gotten far too big for its britches and is an example of what happens when a union gets too powerful and full of itself. Yes, Virginia, there are really are bad unions out there.

Yes, I do have to (and will) acknowledge that fact.



And my name's not Virginia.

[blueberry]

The FSA tests only test students for what is on the curriculum; any teacher who suggests you have to “teach” to the test is a liar. FSA tests basic skills that all students should have by Grade 4 and Grade 7. The BCTF selectively promotes that 85% of teachers voted against the FSA; but what they will not tell you is that only roughly 50% of eligible teachers bothered to come out and vote. You can imagine how the other 50 % feels.

The BCTF once again demonstrates that they are nothing more than a sad and pathetic group of self serving unionists who would rather put Union concerns ahead of your child’s education. Pathetic and disappointing and as always doing a disservice to the good teachers to help cover up for the incompetents who do not belong in the classroom.

The upside is that this irresponsible campaign has finally shown British Columbians just how far the BCTF will stoop to try and screw over our children just to protect incompetent dues paying teachers who do not belong in the classroom.

In the TV interview, the teacher/rep or whoever he was said that it was unfair to hold grade 4 and 7 teachers responsible for the test results as they had no control over the child's education to that point....ughhhh...is this what it is really about to the BCTF?

Save for a handful of exceptionally high achievers, not many like to be tested, or evaluated for that matter. Teachers should hold a vote to see if their students agree to take their final exams!

[CarMa]

I think the tests are a waste of time. I don't need a 7 hour test to tell me how my child is doing in school. He gets enough tests from his teacher, he reads and writes, he can add, subtract and multiply. He's not a genius. I am happy with his school. The staff is caring, the programs seem effective, and my child is happy. The school doesn't rank high, but the Fraser Institute has never bothered to visit my child's school. The multiple choice scores of his classmates tell me nothing about the school; I don't understand what it can effectively tell the Fraser Institute.

When it's his turn to write the test... he won't. 7 hours of testing means 7 hours less of learning.

p.s. Yes, I'm a teacher and I have issues with the FSAs on a philosophical level. But this post is a practical point of view of a parent. I place no value on the test as a parent or a teacher.

[Bobfrommanagment]

In reality the whole school system fails.

I would much rather see more central schools with more funding per school then 100's of half falling down low funded schools (Although there seems to be lack of either). As long as the higher funded schools are properly organized to hold their student bodies with strong staff and communication between the student body and the administration I wouldnt care if there was only one school.

Another issue I find is the lack of benefit/classes for those students that actually go to school to learn and how little the BCTF cares, they should be promoting higher education not more weak education.

I think grade 4 and 7 teachers have the MOST control on a students learning by the time a student gets to high school their opinions and career choices are already being set or are set and are not as easy to manipulate as younger students.

I really dont see the point behined rating schools in comparison to each other since its a "standardized" school system meaning it should be fairly level all around.

[FunkyBunch]

I can't really say I support the case of teachers. After going through school from Grades 1-12 not one teacher noticed/thought I had ADD (no "hyperactivity"). Teacher's thought I was just lazy, or not challenged enough etc. It wasn't until I dropped out of University and attended a Technology Program at OC that it was suggested to me that I had ADD, by a professor.

The psychiatrist didn't understand how it was missed for so long. The only reason he could come up with was that teacher's don't pay attention to the non-"hyperactive" kids or the ones who don't "struggle" to pass. It's not just the noticeable ones who need help.

Don't get me wrong, I think we have a decent education system but it could be made much better with a few tweaks made by the right people on the right things.

But these latest adds have just further proven the BCTF has gotten too big for it's britches and lost it's focus. They should be focusing their efforts on drumming up support for actual initiatives and changes they want to the education system. Not scaring people to vote for the NDP.

[Al Czervic]

I had a very fascinating and insightful discussion with a teacher over the weekend. First off; it is important to recognize that many teacher’s do not agree with the BCTF on this issue; in fact many teachers actually oppose the BCTF directive that they boycott the FSA tests.

I also learned that it is in fact teachers who actually mark the FSA tests; in spite of what the BCTF would have you believe these teachers apparently were marking these tests over this past weekend; clearly ignoring the BCTF BS in the process. Also the BCTF outright lies (that much I already knew) there is no “teaching to the test” rather the FSA test is testing our children on the basic skills they need to get through schooling period.

As this teacher explained it to me; by Grade 4 every student should be able to read proficiently. If a student cannot read by Grade 4; according to the teacher I spoke with; it absolutely would be the fault of a teacher. Mind you the teacher also mentioned that you don’t need FSA tests to tell the good teacher’s from the bad; most of the teacher’s themselves are well aware of the bad one’s. Keep in mind according to the BCTF there are of course no bad teacher’s they are all apparently equal.

According to the teacher the FSA tests HAVE revealed students in Grade 4 who are still struggling with basic reading skills and this is why the FSA tests are so important for each and every student. Random testing I was told would be very dangerous as it would allow the most needy children to possibly fall through the cracks. Bottom line is that many teachers do support the FSA tests (likely why 50% of teacher’s never bothered to back the BCTF action against them) and once again the BCTF proves they care only about themselves and protecting the incompetent teachers so long as those hefty BCTF Union dues keep getting paid.

It’s a shame Steven Lloyd that you would rather back your brothers and sisters in the Union movement than come out in support of our children on an important issue like fundamental skills testing.

[ImRight]

Those that can, do. Those that can not, vote NDP.

What other trades let you work less than 8 hours a day and 9 months a year and still pull in over $60,000?

Answers most include populations greater than 1 percent . YOU WILL BE GRADED ON YOUR RESPONSE.

[Al Czervic]

It’s funny you bring in the NDP to this discussion. When NDP leader Carole James was a school trustee she fought AGAINST the BCTF and supported the FSA tests.

Now that an election is coming and the BCTF is prepared to waste over $ 1 Million of its tax deductable Union members dues to play partisan politics against the BC Liberals suddenly Carole James is silent on the issue of the FSA tests.

[steven lloyd]

According to the teacher the FSA tests HAVE revealed students in Grade 4 who are still struggling with basic reading skills and this is why the FSA tests are so important for each and every student. Random testing I was told would be very dangerous as it would allow the most needy children to possibly fall through the cracks. Bottom line is that many teachers do support the FSA tests (likely why 50% of teacher’s never bothered to back the BCTF action against them) and once again the BCTF proves they care only about themselves and protecting the incompetent teachers so long as those hefty BCTF Union dues keep getting paid.

It’s a shame Steven Lloyd that you would rather back your brothers and sisters in the Union movement than come out in support of our children on an important issue like fundamental skills testing.

Al – are you one of the aforementioned readers who has fallen through the cracks ???



On January 17:

There are many people who believe the BCTF has gotten far too big for its britches and is an example of what happens when a union gets too powerful and full of itself. Yes, Virginia, there are really are bad unions out there.

Yes, I do have to (and will) acknowledge that fact.

On January 13:

Okay, I'll put out a couple of quick suggestions for issues that I would like to see discussed by the politicians:

5. Increased supports in the educational system for troubled children and youth (that we see over and over again in the criminal justice system because we didn’t intervene when it would have been more effective – and far less costly).

[CarMa]

I also learned that it is in fact teachers who actually mark the FSA tests; in spite of what the BCTF would have you believe these teachers apparently were marking these tests over this past weekend; clearly ignoring the BCTF BS in the process.

Who is this teacher you talked to? I find it interesting that tests which aren't being written until February were being marked last weekend. Your "teacher" loses some credibility on this one.

Last year, teachers volunteered their weekends to mark tests for extra money. In most districts, principals had to mark because there were not enough willing teachers. All marking used to be done by the province.

Also the BCTF outright lies (that much I already knew) there is no “teaching to the test” rather the FSA test is testing our children on the basic skills they need to get through schooling period.

Tests are written in February before the curriculum has been covered.

Most teachers of 9 year olds don't teach or assess math with multiple choice tests or questions on a computer. FSA tests are mostly multiple choice. A compassionate teacher doesn't throw his students into a situation that is unfamiliar -- it's not fair to the students and negatively affects the outcome.

As this teacher explained it to me; by Grade 4 every student should be able to read proficiently. If a student cannot read by Grade 4; according to the teacher I spoke with; it absolutely would be the fault of a teacher.

Which teacher? Which grade? Which school? Students in grade 4 have had more than 4 teachers and may have attended more than 1 school.

And the parent and student play no roles in the achievement of the child? So, if a child isn't meeting grade expectations it's the responsibility of the teacher? Following that logic, if the child is gifted the teacher should get credit for that too.

As a parent, I'm not going to let a teacher take credit for my child's ability. If he's not doing well, I want to know that his teacher is helping him. If he's over-achieving, I want to know he is being challenged. That's the teacher's job and it's what I expect.

According to the teacher the FSA tests HAVE revealed students in Grade 4 who are still struggling with basic reading skills and this is why the FSA tests are so important for each and every student. Random testing I was told would be very dangerous as it would allow the most needy children to possibly fall through the cracks.

Well, if the teacher needs an FSA test to tell them the student can't read, then he isn't doing his job. Similarly, if a parent needs an FSA test to tell her that her child can't read, then she isn't doing her job, either.

It’s a shame Steven Lloyd that you would rather back your brothers and sisters in the Union movement than come out in support of our children on an important issue like fundamental [foundation] skills testing.

So, if he doesn't agree with you and that one teacher you spoke to, then he doesn't support our children? That sounds like the American argument from a few years ago wherein if you spoke out against the war, then you didn't support the soldiers.