Mandatory Snow Tires

[cv23]

not skid but momentary loss of brakes in snow is not uncommon.
you can say its such a small amount its unnoticeable, maybe to you it may be.
i prefer standard brakes.
i dont like computors controling my braking and i can 100% tell the difference.
and i do not feel its safer on snow.

Why let a proven safety feature spoil natural selection

[Woodenhead]

tapping the brakes to test is the worst driving theory possible.
you are now assuming that the road is the same conditions 2 miles ahead.
always assume there is black ice etc when winter driving and you will do alot better.

You're wrong, but only because you are insinuating & assuming things yourself, so I forgive you - no biggie.

[my5cents]

"my5cents" - I guess we'll have to agee to disagree.
I've seen it, I know it happens.

Then your brakes are in serious need of attention and adjustment

Oh, gee, I'm really concerned. I must be so stupid that my vehicle is a menace.

Perhaps you should open you eyes and watch the actions of vehicles at intersections in a serious snow storm, you might learn something.

How should you brake on a slippery road?

If the emergency does not require slamming the brakes as hard as possible, squeeze braking (also known as threshold braking) along with declutching (manual shift) or shifting to neutral (automatic transmission) will do the job most efficiently.

http://www.ccohs.ca/oshanswers/safety_haz/icesnow.html

[cv23]

Oh, gee, I'm really concerned. I must be so stupid that my vehicle is a menace.

http://www.ccohs.ca/oshanswers/safety_haz/icesnow.html

Maybe you should actually read the article you posted the link for???????
"Brakes:
Check brakes and adjust to ensure equal braking".

Do you understand the word "equal"? As in the front brakes not locking up while the back brakes are not and pushing the vehicle forward.

[my5cents]

Maybe you should actually read the article you posted the link for???????
"Brakes:
Check brakes and adjust to ensure equal braking".

Do you understand the word "equal"? As in the front brakes not locking up while the back brakes are not and pushing the vehicle forward.

You have no capacity to understand. No use trying.

[cv23]

Please just explain how what you "see all the time" is consistent with the equal braking the link you provided states is the indication of proper function and adjustment of a braking system?

So, you've never seen a driver, trying to stop their vehicle on an icy roadway (ie, the glare ice at an intersection, approaching the stop line), where their application of the brakes is hard enough to lock the front disk brakes, but the rear wheels are still propelling the vehicle forward ??

I see it all the time.

[keith1612]

Oh, gee, I'm really concerned. I must be so stupid that my vehicle is a menace.

Perhaps you should open you eyes and watch the actions of vehicles at intersections in a serious snow storm, you might learn something.

How should you brake on a slippery road?

If the emergency does not require slamming the brakes as hard as possible, squeeze braking (also known as threshold braking) along with declutching (manual shift) or shifting to neutral (automatic transmission) will do the job most efficiently.

http://www.ccohs.ca/oshanswers/safety_haz/icesnow.html

well i have a automatic transmission in my jimmy and i drive in the bush all winter with my double snowmobile trailer behind and would NEVER put it in neutral when braking.
if you had problems sliding etc and needed a emergency acceleration to correct the slide you would have zero control.
i have never seen any driving instructor even consider suggesting something that foolish.
a proper idling car with a auto transmission with correctly adjusted brakes will NEVER push the car forward out of control.
if the cars idle is set too high then yes it for sure will or if the back brakes are out of adjustment.
most vehicles the rear brakes are adjusted by using the emergency brakes, very few people actually do so they are not set properly.

[cv23]

most vehicles the rear brakes are adjusted by using the emergency brakes, very few people actually do so they are not set properly.

Going to an empty parking lot, or other safe area and reversing about 5 miles an hour and then stomping on the brakes is another way to adjust the brakes in many vehicles.

[Busdriver1964]

not skid but momentary loss of brakes in snow is not uncommon.
you can say its such a small amount its unnoticeable, maybe to you it may be.
i prefer standard brakes.
i dont like computors controling my braking and i can 100% tell the difference.
and i do not feel its safer on snow.[/quote]


You are joking right ... If you can stop quicker with standard brakes over any ABS system......uh ... please tell tell us your obviously special procedure

[Bsuds]

This explains it quite well.

http://www.ehow.com/about_5393969_abs-v ... rakes.html

[twobits]

I too have witnesses what 5 cents refers to with the front brakes locking while the rears do not. The only time I do see it though is typically a very slippery intersection with a bit of a down grade. Even with properly adjusted brakes, the act of braking automatically transfers the weight distribution of the vehicle forward and the downslope does this as well. If inadequete road friction is unavailable to handle the weight transfer, the fronts will slide while the rears continue to roll. That is why front brakes do 70% of your braking, the forward weight transfer. We are not talking hard or panic stop application which would lock all wheels.

In my neck of the woods there are well known notorious winter intersections. I was taught the proper manuvere for those butt pinching streering slides was to lift the foot off the brake pedal and apply the emergency brakes moderately. Even if the rears do lock up, you still have steering control.

[cv23]

I too have witnesses what 5 cents refers to with the front brakes locking while the rears do not. The only time I do see it though is typically a very slippery intersection with a bit of a down grade. Even with properly adjusted brakes, the act of braking automatically transfers the weight distribution of the vehicle forward and the downslope does this as well. If inadequete road friction is unavailable to handle the weight transfer, the fronts will slide while the rears continue to roll. That is why front brakes do 70% of your braking, the forward weight transfer.

Sure in certain applications the front brakes may lock up '"before" the backs do but if as 5 cents describes "the backs are still pushing the car forward" it means the back brakes are not engaging when you depress the pedal so they are either out of adjustment or malfunctioning. There is a HUGE difference between wheels simply "rolling" and actually pushing the vehicle forward. In a properly functioning system once the brakes are applied there is pressure applied to both front and back at the same time.
It has been suggested and is possible the vehicles idle is set way to high or another possibility is that the driver forgets they are on an icy road and thinks they are on a race track where the brakes can be applied in conjunction with depressing the accelerator to maintain speed. Neither is recommend in icy road conditions

[GoStumpy]

Just to add, I doubt anyone has seen a late-model car with the front tires locked and the rears spinning, it would almost exclusively be older-model cars with obviously non-perfect braking systems. I'm thinking a 1986 Chevrolet Caprice was the last one I saw doing it ;)

BUT ANYWAY, what does this have to do with mandatory winter tires?????? Winter tires won't help this situation at all, so why are we focusing on it?

[HoboJo]

I like my Goodyear Wranglers. They have a snowflake but are a pretty hard compound so they don't shred on dry roads.

I just drove the "coke" earlier this week and it is truly nasty up there. The fun part was watching the CSV pulling over all the semis who choose to ignore the mandatory chain requirements they had in place Thursday. 20 semis pulled over on a hill being ticketed and then having to put their chains on and try to get rolling again from a dead stop up said hill. Morons.

[Busdriver1964]

This explains it quite well.

http://www.ehow.com/about_5393969_abs-v ... rakes.html

Not sure where EHOW got its Stats from but it is BS..
Once a wheel locks up and starts to skid all traction is lost. Basic physics.
In a panic stop or slippery roads I would put my money on the ABS every time.