Merit Pay for BC Public Servants

[Bud+]

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/british-columb ... ement.html

Of course this would have to apply to all civil servants equally, paid and elected. Think of the money we would save. Bone heads like Falcon would be collecting negative salaries. Half the RCMP would also be paying the province. City workers would be digging deep to afford to lean on that shovel. CEOs of our crown corporations would be moonlighting as janitors and cab drivers to make ends meet.

Who would administer such a scheme? Imagine the opportunities for abuse? The administrative nightmare? What would it cost and how would they measure merit in every government position in the province? It would cost billions and push BC farther down than ever.

Where do we find these people, these great minds that want to lead our province? Where?
At least this fool has shot himself in the foot, he'll never live it down thankfully. But this is the caliber of candidates coming forward.

Nothing but small minded A holes with personal agendas? Surely we can do better than that? Perhaps not in the Liberal Party. This jerk thinks he can get elected Premier based on teacher bashing. Thats what the Liberal Party has to offer us, personality dysfunction. Some leadership skills!

[issueman]

This has been tried in many places, many times before. Did NOT work.

http://www.vancouversun.com/business/Li ... story.html

[coffeeFreak]

As much as I believe there is a place for unions, I also believe they are the reason for so much "dead weight" in many areas. IMO a balance MUST be found in protecting employees rights versus protecting the rights of the recipients of these providers. Too many poor, ineffective and sometimes useless performers hide behind the shirt-tails of their unions. I have seen some terrible employees throughout the years and administrations hands are often tied because of the union's protection...Unfortunately union and non-union perspectives have become so dichotomous there seems to be no middle ground, yet, it seems to me, finding middle ground is the only way any kind of accountibility can be established.

Also the idea of merit pay is a great one but to define "merit", a very subjective term, would be far too difficult and would likely create an entirely new set of problems...

[NAB]

When does the existing teacher's contract expire? I seem to recall it is on the immediate horizon. If so, it will make for a very interesting round of negotiations that the next premier has to lead, ...and I question Falcon's sanity in bringing this issue up as part of his campaign in light of that.

Nab

[Urbane]

When does the existing teacher's contract expire? I seem to recall it is on the immediate horizon. If so, it will make for a very interesting round of negotiations that the next premier has to lead, ...and I question Falcon's sanity in bringing this issue up as part of his campaign in light of that.

Nab

Indeed. I'd like to know where the money is going to come from to pay for this new scheme. The people who administer the new program will need to be paid and of course there's the merit pay itself. And how about those teachers who spent a lot of money earning master's degrees with the understanding that their salary would be adjusted? . And how about teachers who started off with a relatively low salary with the understanding that with experience their salary would increase? Now that they've finally reached the maximum would their salary be reduced? This whole idea reminds me of Vander Zalm's time as education minister. I remember when he announced one day that starting the following school year every high school student would be taking an extra science class. The next day school district superintendents were all calling the Ministry of Education to find out when the money would be arriving to build the new science labs. The idea quietly disappeared. And I think this idea is likely to quietly disappear as well.

[Logitack]

Teachers are an easy target for politicians from both parties. They do it almost every year as part of the teacher bashing diversion. Falcon needed something to add to his failing platform and as usual teachers are always an easy target.

The facts are that merit pay, while possibly a good idea, has not worked to improve student performance. You only have to look to the US where it is a complete failure. Unless teachers have complete control over their students study habits, activities in and out of school, how the student is raised at home, who the student hangs out with, merit pay and student performance will simply be unfairly administered.

If Falcon wanted to test his idea on merit pay, he should apply it to himself and his cabinet colleagues. The health minister would receive "merit pay" based on the overall health of the citizens of BC. The measurement would be that all citizens would be within 1% of their BMI, exercising an hour a day, eating healthy foods as set out in the canada food guide, sleeping at least 8 hours a night, et cetera. Merit pay would be paid out if the minister met the standards as set out above. Sounds fair and pretty easy, right? LOL.

[Urbane]

Teachers are an easy target for politicians from both parties. They do it almost every year as part of the teacher bashing diversion. Falcon needed something to add to his failing platform and as usual teachers are always an easy target.

The facts are that merit pay, while possibly a good idea, has not worked to improve student performance. You only have to look to the US where it is a complete failure. Unless teachers have complete control over their students study habits, activities in and out of school, how the student is raised at home, who the student hangs out with, merit pay and student performance will simply be unfairly administered.

If Falcon wanted to test his idea on merit pay, he should apply it to himself and his cabinet colleagues. The health minister would receive "merit pay" based on the overall health of the citizens of BC. The measurement would be that all citizens would be within 1% of their BMI, exercising an hour a day, eating healthy foods as set out in the canada food guide, sleeping at least 8 hours a night, et cetera. Merit pay would be paid out if the minister met the standards as set out above. Sounds fair and pretty easy, right? LOL.

Excellent points. Too many people look at things from an ideological point of view but whether it comes from the left or the right a dumb idea is a dumb idea. And this idea is dumb. Here's something else that a lot of people won't want to hear: The system is not broken. No education system is perfect and our system in British Columbia has its faults but it provides an excellent level of education to the province's students. I think Falcon knows that and I believe his strategy is to play to his base without any intention of actually following through on the idea if he becomes leader.

[Captain Awesome]

Merit-based pay system in US created countless occasions where teachers would cheat on tests, help kids cheat on tests or bluntly changer their answers to get better overall score. Rather interesting study I've read about...

[Al Czervic]

I am all for merit pay (in theory) however in reality it could never be effectively managed and administrated by the government. Merit according to who ? And how do you define that ? More so how do you define that in written policy that government and school board bureaucrats could define with the agreement of the BCTF ? Never happen. It is great theory but simply unworkable. I would like to see changes made in public education but this does not strike me as a workable solution.

[Oxl3y]

My father was a high school physics teacher at KSS and a very good one at that. He might have benefited from a performance based salary as he was always going the extra mile to help his students but I still don't think its a good idea. As hard as he worked for his students there was always some that would not/ could not do well and is that the teachers fault? I understand what the performance pay system is trying to do but in reality it is just impossible and unfair.

[flamingfingers]

My father was a high school physics teacher at KSS and a very good one at that. He might have benefited from a performance based salary as he was always going the extra mile to help his students but I still don't think its a good idea. As hard as he worked for his students there was always some that would not/ could not do well and is that the teachers fault? I understand what the performance pay system is trying to do but in reality it is just impossible and unfair.

A teacher's performance is not necessarily linked to the the number of students in his/her classes that 'pass'. And for another person to rate a teacher's performance that was not linked thus would require objectivity that most evaluators simply do not posses. That exercise would end up as a "Likert" scale.

[Bagotricks]

So one year a teacher gets a class with 10 problem kids in it. Parents are non-existant, lowbrow, addicts ect. How is that the teachers fault? That teacher worries all year if he/she can make the mortage payments. Teachers undress financial duress - awesome!

Another year a teacher gets a class with 1 problem kid in it, and a bunch of foreign students who get 100% every single one of their tests without even a single peice of "help" from the teacher - because if they dont, their parents will beat them! I guess that lucky teacher gets a trip to Mexico over Christmas!

Sound good - who wants to sign up and teach?

Like another posted mentioned - this is just election time BS. Who are one of the easiest public servant groups to target - hmm - who gets the "summer off" - yup teachers. Instead of bringing funding levels back to where they where before the LIBERALS cut enough holes in the education system to call it swiss - or bringing in more programs - he can buy more votes with this " put the fire to the teachers feet" and create a false debate about it in the media about it. Hey - how about not making parents pay to bus their kids to school!

Whats to stop a teacher from fudging the grades? Will we need to create a whole new level of teachers - "verifiers" that operate independently of the teacher to ensure the marks are the correct marks? How much will that cost?

Now apply this to your own job. Would you work at a job where you pay is based a variable rate - and that rate is completely dependent on factors you have NO control over. Teachers cant talk smack their students, or MAKE them do their homework - that's the parents job!

Ah yes, Kevin - you dont have my vote, but neither did your party to begin with.

[Gone_Fishin]

COTA President Alice Rees:

"Disgust. They're disgusted. Why would they think we (teachers) would perform harder if some of us were getting paid more. There are no teachers in our system that are not giving 100 per cent."


If what I've seen is 100%, I'd say the taxpayers are getting ripped off.

[flamingfingers]

COTA President Alice Rees:

"Disgust. They're disgusted. Why would they think we (teachers) would perform harder if some of us were getting paid more. There are no teachers in our system that are not giving 100 per cent."


If what I've seen is 100%, I'd say the taxpayers are getting ripped off.

Are you, have you ever been a teacher? If not, you really have no idea of what happens inside/outside a classroom.

[NAB]

If my information is correct, the current contract between the Teacher's Union and the employer expires this coming June. I think Kevin Falcon should have been more careful about opening this can of worms. Now it's going to bite him big time IMO, and could very well spell the end of his leadership ambitions.

Nab