Ferry costs to go up - time for a bridge?

[sooperphreek]

how much money does BC ferries have to make? they announced that they are raising the rates for the ferries again. wouldnt it be more wise to build a bridge to the island? if we could make confederation bridge surely we could make one to vancouver island? and then the infastructure would just be "there" with minimal maintenance and you can collect tolls that people would gladly pay for the convenience to get across any time they please. and the best part? no ferry waits and no missed sailings or full sailings to contend with. you wont have to be at least an hour early (or pay extra 17 bucks to reserve) and can just drive after a short wait at a tollboth.

[Nebula]

I can't remember the figures, but the cost of building a bridge to the island is obscenely more than the cost of building the Confederation Bridge.

Here they are...

http://www.th.gov.bc.ca/publications/reports_and_studies/fixed_link/fixed_link.htm

[Bagotricks]

I thought that when they 1/2'ed privatized BC Ferries, rates would go down and services would improve. All I can see that happened is that the CEO's and the top brass all got nice bonuses and pay raises and are now crying boo-hoo that they are in need of money and need to raise rates 100% in come cases.

They cant build a bridge because of fault lines, shipping traffic and the weather.

I miss the old public BC ferries. They had better food and less offensive "touristy" feels to the ferries. It was s "BC" thing. Now when I ride a ferry I feel like Disney just did a rectal exam on me or something. So focused on "point of sale milking" and "revenue generators"...makes me wonder why they are so broke.

[NAB]

There is unlikely to ever be a fixed link to the Island so long as those who think seriously about such things refuse to consider anything other than linking it directly to the lower mainland, ....and have vehicular traffic as their initial focus rather than railway.

In many ways, it's the same kind of narrow and faulty thinking of 30 years ago that continued to channel all Okanagan road traffic through the centre of Westbank, Kelowna, Winfield, and Vernon.

Nab

[John500]

NAB, you are so right on this one. This bridge to the island has been talked about for at least 30 years. Same with a Kelowna bypass. It will never happen. But it can be done. The Chunnel connected France and England. A huge bridge connected Denmark and Sweden. Look at some of the bridges build in China. Freeways in most countries bypass towns and cities. And look at the US Interstate. Actually based on the german 3rd reich plan of moving equpment fast and efficient. But in BC everything has to go thru towns or with ferries. Stuck in the 50's/60's thinking here. We do not have a BC transportation plan at all. We keep on widening little bits and pieces and keep on adding traffic lights.

[NAB]

What should be being looked at more seriously is the feasibility of a rail link from Kamloops through to north Vancouver Island then down the island. A conventional basic 2 lane Highway could follow the same route eventually, and any bridges involved planned with that addition in mind, (and over / under style rather than side by side style). We don't need all these modern pie in the sky bridge designs, as there will still be a need for a minimalist ferry system in the south.

Nab

[twobits]

The cost of a bridge was feasible the last time it was even half seriously considered. If memory serves me correctly, the bulk of opposition came from Island residents who preferred to be "isolated" by the ferry bottleneck. They expressed fears of the Island losing it's identity as being distinct from the mainland. Areas close to the terminals were vehemently opposed for the obvious commercial reasons. Personally I think it might be worthy to revisit the idea.

Edit to add- When the province back in black.

[Nebula]

According to the link I provided (I know, it's a gov't wesite), the cost is prohibitive and the engineering challenges far larger.

[NAB]

I don't think the cost of a bridge is at all feasible if the focus remains on connecting south island to the lower mainland. The link if any has to be at north island. And as a resident of the island for the last 9 years, and in close contact with it for the past 20 years, I have never once come across anyone who holds the view that the island should continue to be isolated from the rest of BC. That attitude seems to come from the rest of BC because the island has long been viewed as a socialist backwater and NDP stronghold (also not true).

Nab

[nolanrh]

North Island --> Mainland seems even worse. You can't really go north of vancouver without hitting ferries, so you'd need bridges there too... Would it really be more efficient for trains to truck all the way around, than trucks to ride a ferry?

[sooperphreek]

the connection idea with the north end of the island is redundant and you would still need ferries if that was the case. and the bigger issue for me here is freedom to move when and where i want to with the least amount of limitation. no waits....no delays....just open road to drive on. in the okanagan if we want to go to the lower mainland and we have to be at a meeting at 7:30 am we have the luxury of being able to hop in our car and drive through the night if we like to get there on time. with the ferry issues you have to plan things like you were going on vacation. that to me is unacceptable. and even if we did build a rail link the issue will be similar in the sense that they can charge whatever they see fit and we are held hostage. like i said earlier - if there was a bridge and the tolls went up 100 percent i would be gritting my teeth but at least i had the freedom to travel on my own terms. otherwise vancouver island may as well be called alcatraz because with 100 percent rate hikes not as many people will be comming and not as many will be able to go off. there were proposals in place that were able to be done and would have been a cost that tolls would have recouped with ease. the isolationism on the island is a real issue and bit by bit that is eroding away. especially when more and more people are moving to the island and its growing in leaps and bounds. i think that the cost issue really has to do with who is leading the province at the time. if its a party with big business interests and lining the pockets of friends who take over a partially private bc ferres and get huge salaries? then ya a bridge is a bad idea for the bottom line. if its a party that is about the working man and feels that it can spend the money and make it back? then you can make things happen pretty easily. but im not delusional and am not holding my breath i just think that a bridge is the best idea for every facet of BC economy as a whole.

[NAB]

North Island --> Mainland seems even worse. You can't really go north of vancouver without hitting ferries, so you'd need bridges there too... Would it really be more efficient for trains to truck all the way around, than trucks to ride a ferry?

I'm not sure I understand what you are asking nolan, but as yet I am not too sure if a feasible route even exists from Kamloops to the short island hops to the island at the north end. Still, if a feasible route does exist, it's not just about truck or car traffic (or even tourism) from the Vancouver area to the south island area. It's about rail lines, a minimalist highway, and oil / refined products, natural gas, and hydro lines too ... all along the same more northerly east - west corridor. Yes, there will still be a need for a minimalist ferry sytem at the south and among the gulf islands, but it wouldn't take a major corporate structure to run that, as well as private commercial boat and barge traffic as we already have.

I see North Island as a much more advantageous location for a new major west coast port too, rather than further north as is currently the thrust. Much less negative environmental hazard and impact in my view, although I haven't carefully studied all the related logistics involved.

Nab

[Rwede]

how much money does BC ferries have to make?

FYI, BC Ferries made $3 million last year and $9 million the year before. Hardly what I would call outrageous profitability considering the nearly $2 billion investment in assets they have.

And before people run on about David Hahn's salary, they should know that it represents 0.1% of revenues, which is comparatively low for a company this size.

[NAB]

This is the corridor I would be exploring to open up if I were (much) younger. The north south island corridor portion already exists (super highway, rail line, etc), as does an established interilsland ferry and air system in the south portions. And develop a great Asia/Pacific access port at the north inside end of the Island. (Port Hardy area).





Nab

[sooperphreek]

if they upgraded the northern end of hwy 99 and junctioned off at pemberton to the coast towards campbell river with a bridge system that would be a decent corridor and would open up a great area of the province. i bet powell river would love being connected to the rest of the world. but around lillooet the road (basically its a glorified logging road) is switchbacks down valleys and you have to go across 1 way bridges at the bottom praying that an insane logging truck driver doesnt kill you as you pass over. but then again thats probably all the connector to merrit was years ago too. in that respect it would be win/win because it would be an alternate route for travelers to go from whistler to the island and more usefull for people in the central part of the province to either get to whisler or to the north end of the island. but in the end it doesnt really help anyone from nanaimo and victoria to get to the mainland. its about 4 hrs drive to campbell river from victoria and then you are in the middle of nowhere till you make your way to whistler area. im not so sure 12 hours of driving with convenience and freedom to vancouver is worth a 2 hr overpriced ferry ride. wonder if the terain is anything like hwy 20 from williams lake to bella coola. it is a vast expanse on a plateau and then all the sudden a tremendous drop-off down to the fjord to bella coola proper. my breaks were definately warm when i got to the bottom thats for sure. on the coast the terrain would be something else though. making a highway through there would be quite an undertaking. instead of 1 bridge you would have dozens spanning valleys and gorges along the way. but maybe the trickle down of the port trade would be something that would make that a possibility. i think it would be a nice option in terms of people comming from alberta too. lillooet is just a hop skip and a jump from kamloops which is the highway hub, industry hub, and train hub of BC. and if there was a viable highway i bet they would think of using it.