SPCA to exhume slain sled dogs

[janalta]

Get a grip Adder. Seriously.
One does not need a degree in forensics to know about the process of decomposition.
Unless buried in sealed containers...which I assume they were NOT, putrification and decomposition of soft tissue would take approximately one year to achieve. Given the fact that all of the dogs were thrown together in one pit, the increase in temperature as oppossed to only one body would serve to accelerate decomposition even further. Add to that the fact that any trauma or open injury to the body also increases the rate of decomposition, and these dogs were all presumable killed by gun shot or knife....there's not going to be a whole lot left of them to study.

It is already known that the dogs were killed via gun and for some, knife as well. Therefore it can be presumed that many of the bones will show signs of damage...that is a given.
That does not however, tell anyone anything about whether or not the animals suffered any pain.

It will show that 100 dogs were slaughtered and thrown into a grave and buried.
Pretty sure the SPCA does not need to waste $200,000 to prove that one.

I suppose they could add charges if the grave is less than 2 metres deep....pretty minor charge for that kind of money though.

[Graham Adder]

Get a grip Adder. Seriously.
One does not need a degree in forensics to know about the process of decomposition.
Unless buried in sealed containers...which I assume they were NOT, putrification and decomposition of soft tissue would take approximately one year to achieve. Given the fact that all of the dogs were thrown together in one pit, the increase in temperature as oppossed to only one body would serve to accelerate decomposition even further. Add to that the fact that any trauma or open injury to the body also increases the rate of decomposition, and these dogs were all presumable killed by gun shot or knife....there's not going to be a whole lot left of them to study.

It is already known that the dogs were killed via gun and for some, knife as well. Therefore it can be presumed that many of the bones will show signs of damage...that is a given.
That does not however, tell anyone anything about whether or not the animals suffered any pain.

It will show that 100 dogs were slaughtered and thrown into a grave and buried.
Pretty sure the SPCA does not need to waste $200,000 to prove that one.

I suppose they could add charges if the grave is less than 2 metres deep....pretty minor charge for that kind of money though.

'bout what I expected

I know they can tell a whole crap load from traces of bone marrow.
I know they can read into lots of stuff using bone mass readings.
Dental analysis can also tell a heap of stuff about how an animal or person died.
I also know that decomposition depends on a whole lot more than the number of dogs buried in a site or whether or not they were in tupperware...geezuz...
Altitude, climate, moisture, time of year the decomposing started and once again...the list goes on...all have a lot to do with decomposition rates.
You don't appear to be an authority on the topic to state whether or not they will be able to tell from the bones if the animals were in pain or not. They may very well be able to tell a whole bunch more than how they were shot or slain.

I don't agree with the price tag associated to this dig.
I do however see the potential value in doing so.
I'm no rocket surgeon, but I do know them forensic scientists likely knows a tad more than I does about exhuming bodies.

[janalta]

Seems to me you're doing nothing but arguing just for argument sake.

Of course there are many variables that play into the rate of decomposition...and if you stop and think about it long enough, none of the condtions favor finding a lot of useful tissue on site. Spring time, west coast, mass shallow grave....you're right, doesn't take a genius to figure it out.
What exactly are tests on bone and teeth going to tell anyone? Let's see...that the dogs suffered traumatic deaths from gunshot? Already established that one.
The following is just part of the testimony of the 'accused' when he filed his WCB claim, and the manager of the resort.....you really think spending $200,000...or any amount for that matter, to exhume the decomposed bodies is going to tell more about the events of that day?

Susie's death didn't come quickly among the 100 sled dogs slaughtered after they had outlived their usefulness to Outdoor Adventures, which had used them as sled dogs to entertain the Olympic visitors in Whistler. The general manager who had been ordered to do the killings had shot out Susie's left side of her cheekbone but she didn't die. Instead, with her eyeball hanging out of its socket she tried vainly to escape after the man made the mistake of letting go of the leash and she was able to run off. The unidentified employee then had to track the Husky down using a scope on his firearm to end this poor animal's life.

Then there was Nora who the manager noticed crawling among the 10 or more dead dogs about 20 minutes after he shot her outside the company's compound and buried in a mass grave. The man had to climb down into the pit to "put her out of her misery."

BTW - the SPCA isn't picking up the whole tag for this....so...the good old tax payers get to pitch in...money well spent?

[Graham Adder]

Seems to me you're doing nothing but arguing just for argument sake.

Of course there are many variables that play into the rate of decomposition...and if you stop and think about it long enough, none of the condtions favor finding a lot of useful tissue on site. Spring time, west coast, mass shallow grave....you're right, doesn't take a genius to figure it out.
What exactly are tests on bone and teeth going to tell anyone? Let's see...that the dogs suffered traumatic deaths from gunshot? Already established that one.
The following is just part of the testimony of the 'accused' when he filed his WCB claim, and the manager of the resort.....you really think spending $200,000...or any amount for that matter, to exhume the decomposed bodies is going to tell more about the events of that day?

Susie's death didn't come quickly among the 100 sled dogs slaughtered after they had outlived their usefulness to Outdoor Adventures, which had used them as sled dogs to entertain the Olympic visitors in Whistler. The general manager who had been ordered to do the killings had shot out Susie's left side of her cheekbone but she didn't die. Instead, with her eyeball hanging out of its socket she tried vainly to escape after the man made the mistake of letting go of the leash and she was able to run off. The unidentified employee then had to track the Husky down using a scope on his firearm to end this poor animal's life.

Then there was Nora who the manager noticed crawling among the 10 or more dead dogs about 20 minutes after he shot her outside the company's compound and buried in a mass grave. The man had to climb down into the pit to "put her out of her misery."

BTW - the SPCA isn't picking up the whole tag for this....so...the good old tax payers get to pitch in...money well spent?

I am not arguing.
I'm simply pointing at a know it all and stating that she doesn't know it all at all.
Get that into ya.

I also don't need to use the gruesome details in a pathetic attempt to garner support for my side of this discussion.
From your ease of use of that tactic, I'll make my own assumptions regarding which checkout line rags you seek info from.

What was told from the POV of the defendant is one's person's personal account.
What can be found by exhuming could lead to facts based in either direction.
Let's not forget that Mr.PatheticDefendant was going for worker's compensation to pay him for PTSD. He was seeking a way to NOT work due to stress related to what HE did to those dogs. I believe his word about as solid as...well...about as solid as your word Janalta.

I'll trust what the tests reveal above what this lying sack of dung says.
I'll trust forensic scientists knowledge above yours Janalta.

Simple...logical...dig it?

[Corneliousrooster]

and if he is found to be completly at fault and 100 cruelty charges are laid - then what?

[Graham Adder]

and if he is found to be completly at fault and 100 cruelty charges are laid - then what?

That is what remains to be seen, isn't it?


My hope is the same as most. I hope the test results show their worth in the charges laid, penalty or penalties served as well as lessons learned and perhaps tighter restrictions for future endeavors in similar fields.

[janalta]

I also don't need to use the gruesome details in a pathetic attempt to garner support for my side of this discussion.
From your ease of use of that tactic, I'll make my own assumptions regarding which checkout line rags you seek info from

Yeah, right.
The on line rag you refer to....that would be...the front page of the Vancouver Sun

[Corneliousrooster]

and if he is found to be completly at fault and 100 cruelty charges are laid - then what?

That is what remains to be seen, isn't it?


My hope is the same as most. I hope the test results show their worth in the charges laid, penalty or penalties served as well as lessons learned and perhaps tighter restrictions for future endeavors in similar fields.

Judging by what murderers and rapists get in this country for punishment for crimes against humans i really can't see that whatever they find will bring some new level of justice.

big waste of $$$ IMO. if that is how the SPCA deems a suitable use of donations than my donations will now cease. How many animals are getting euthanised in underfunded shelters so we can potentially seek some justice that will not fit the crime anyways?

[prairieflower]

Judging by what murderers and rapists get in this country for punishment for crimes against humans i really can't see that whatever they find will bring some new level of justice.

big waste of $$$ IMO. if that is how the SPCA deems a suitable use of donations than my donations will now cease. How many animals are getting euthanised in underfunded shelters so we can potentially seek some justice that will not fit the crime anyways?

[Lore]

The BCSPCA's CEO Craig Daniell responds to question on why the exhumation of the mass grave is necessary.

http://www.spca.bc.ca/news-and-events/n ... -into.html

[Corneliousrooster]

I don't get it.....

is there no crime up to this point? Is it legal for a dog sled company to kill off 100 dogs at one time if it was done "humanely"? if not, what is the punishment for killing off 100 dogs that were formerly used for your livelyhood? And what is the difference in punishment from killing 100 dogs "humanely" compared to 100 dogs killed deemed animal cruelty?

not sure how they figure spending $225,000 on this will bring about an end result in preventing this same type of thing from happening again.

[strwbrrydvl]

I would think that the man who did this stating that the dogs suffered would be enough 'evidence' to deem it inhumane...

That's a lot of money that could go towards saving animals that are still living.

[Captain Awesome]

SPCA is playing RCMP.

[Phoenix Within]

I would think that money would help a lot of other animals that are alive - not dead for a year. Cripes.

Could have also kept the Kelowna Drop-In Centre and Women's Resource Centre open for another year.

But no, to the voting public, exhuming a bunch of dead dogs is far more important then helping out a fellow human being!

[Phoenix Within]

if that is how the SPCA deems a suitable use of donations than my donations will now cease.

If you had an idea where most of the donated money goes in most organizations, this isn't the only one you'd stop donating to!