How will you vote in the HST referendum?

Rwede · Post by **Rwede** » Jul 5th, 2011, 1:35 pm

Ninety-one economists rally behind HST

By Jock Finlayson and Kevin Milligan, Vancouver Sun

The referendum on the harmonized sales tax and the provincial sales tax/federal goods and services tax system presents an important choice for British Columbians. As the ballots arrive, we think it is important as economists to speak out on how we view the debate.

We are united in the belief that switching back to the old PST/ GST system is the wrong way to address important social and economic problems.

It is well known that value added taxes (like the HST) are superior to retail sales taxes (like the old PST). Because the PST taxed some inputs at every stage of production, the cascade of compounding taxes led to higher tax rates on investment. The HST, in contrast, taxes only final products at a clear and transparent rate. This is why 140 countries in the world use value-added taxes like the HST, and only a few jurisdictions in Canada and the United States still use taxes like the PST.

Economists know that removing a penalty to investment will produce more investment in capital goods like equipment, machinery and buildings. These investments support growth in jobs and wages. Removing barriers like the PST from the tax system is best for the long-run prosperity of B.C.

Many economists are also concerned about the fairness of outcomes. The new HST credit, by providing $230 per year for each family member in low-income families, helps improve the fairness of the HST. By exempting basic food and rent, the HST's burden on lower income households is again lightened.

We believe the HST represents a step forward for our tax system and economy. We urge you to consider this when you fill in your ballots.

Jock Finlayson is executive vicepresident of policy at the Business Council of British Columbia. Kevin Milligan is associate professor of economics at the University of British Columbia. They submitted this letter with the support of 89 more economists from the academic and private sectors.

© Copyright (c) The Vancouver Sun

Smurf · Post by **Smurf** » Jul 5th, 2011, 4:21 pm

Wonder if those are the same economists that agreed with the Liberals original BS predictions for the income, jobs created etc. from the HST that has been blown completely out of the water by the independent panel (who by the way even put "might" on the possibility it might produce even the much fewer jobs they predicted). Or maybe they were the same ones advising the Liberals about the recession when they didn't even realize we were in one till it was half over. Even when it comes budget time they are amazed at how much larger the deficit was than they thought. Hope no one listens to them for their personal finances.

flamingfingers · Post by **flamingfingers** » Jul 5th, 2011, 4:49 pm

Smurf wrote:Wonder if those are the same economists that agreed with the Liberals original BS predictions for the income, jobs created etc. from the HST that has been blown completely out of the water by the independent panel (who by the way even put "might" on the possibility it might produce even the much fewer jobs they predicted). Or maybe they were the same ones advising the Liberals about the recession when they didn't even realize we were in one till it was half over. Even when it comes budget time they are amazed at how much larger the deficit was than they thought. Hope no one listens to them for their personal finances.

Right on, Smurf!

An economist's guess is liable to be as good as anybody else's.

Will Rogers

An economist is an expert who will know tomorrow why the things he predicted yesterday didn't happen today.

Laurence J. Peter

Captain Awesome · Post by **Captain Awesome** » Jul 5th, 2011, 5:21 pm

I think argument over HST turned into links battle.

One party has all the links and studies they have to prove that HST causes people go broke, eat their own eyeballs, and pay gazillion dollars in extra taxes.

The other side has all the links and studies to show that HST is the best thing since sliced bread.

Stalemate, of sorts.

Madtaxi · Post by **Madtaxi** » Jul 5th, 2011, 6:16 pm

Al Czervic · Post by **Al Czervic** » Jul 5th, 2011, 8:12 pm

Captain Awesome wrote:I think argument over HST turned into links battle.

One party has all the links and studies they have to prove that HST causes people go broke, eat their own eyeballs, and pay gazillion dollars in extra taxes.

The other side has all the links and studies to show that HST is the best thing since sliced bread.

Stalemate, of sorts.

Those stickmen ads are actually pretty accurate......

Madtaxi · Post by **Madtaxi** » Jul 6th, 2011, 6:19 am

Re: How will you vote in the HST referendum?
by Al Czervic » Jun 22nd, 2011, 11:10 pm

sooperphreek wrote:
hey al.......are you gonna start a riot when the hst gets voted against? you seem so passionate about it. LOL

NO…I did better and am moving to Alberta instead. However I will laugh my *bleep* off when taxes get cranked up way more then they are now and I will go back to getting PST free boat moorage and golf club dues while low income folks loose their HST credits.

What will be even more gratifying is when other taxes get cranked through the roof to offset the costs of hiring more bureaucracy and to recover other PST inefficiencies all so some folks can have PST free haircuts and appies and a 35 cent cheaper McHappy meal.

It will be fun to watch….but the best part is when the politicians responsible will sit back and collect their fully indexed pensions and those who thought they were sending a “message” will be the ones who ultimately foot the bill paying for those pensions. The biggest charade about the HST is the myth that somehow the rich and “business” will pay if BC will go back to the PST. If you really want to know why the rich get richer it is because of the idiots who think they are making business pay. These loons cannot figure it out….of course every economist on the planet can tell them that the HST makes the rich pay far more but they just don’t’ get it. It’s fun to watch stupidity at work and a millionaire like Bill Vanderscalm pull the wool over so many people’s eyes.Al Czervic
Castanet ÜberStar

Posts: 6701

Don't let the door hit you in the %^& on the way out. :dyinglaughing:

Smurf · Post by **Smurf** » Jul 6th, 2011, 6:36 am

I'll bet Al is not alone. I wonder how many will leave the province over this mess? You have to admit a stable situation in Alberta does look good right now and I don't believe our mess will be cleaned up for a long time no matter which way we go. We're slipping and sliding in Doo Doo folks. Be careful not to fall.

NAB · Post by **NAB** » Jul 6th, 2011, 6:54 am

Even for those who stay, there are still many many ways to save money and avoid taxes. Both small business and government revenues will suffer should enough people decide to get on that bandwagon.

Edit to add: Government of course can always increase the various taxes and fees to get more revenue, but local small business cannor force people to spend money with them, even if their consumption and income taxes are reduced to zero.

Nab

daedalus · Post by **daedalus** » Jul 6th, 2011, 4:14 pm

As much as I hate it, i'm voting no. Keep the tax, vote against the party.

Sorry if some or all of this has been said already.
If we repeal the HST we do owe the federal government 1.6 billion, plus other costs. We are already are in deficit spending, our education and healthcare systems are straining (with higher class size, closure of schools, and ever increasing health care demand). If we repeal it where does that 1.6 billion+ come from? Education? Infrastructure? Health care?

If anything we need to lower the amount of taxes needed, so reducing frivolous spending would be better, like the "you worked for the government for a couple weeks, here is a large retirement package and a generous pension" scenario that pops up every so often. Using a city example, did we really need to give someone 80000 to change the logo to something not wanted? There are probably many similar things that happened on a provincial level that people could point out.
Or stop delaying on the several court cases that are dragging on in the courts for years and years with no end in sight (bc legislative raids, native land claims, ect), at this point, the only people winning in those and similar cases are the lawyers.

sjkean · Post by **sjkean** » Jul 11th, 2011, 10:42 pm

The important thing is to vote and mail your HST Referendum

grammafreddy · Post by **grammafreddy** » Jul 12th, 2011, 8:38 am

AM 1150 has a poll running right now ...

Are you in favour of extinguishing the HST (Harmonized Sales Tax) and reinstating the PST (Provincial Sales Tax) in conjunction with the GST (Goods and Services Tax)?
Yes 38.4%
No 61.6%
UPDATED: 7/12/2011 10:37:11 AM

Loed · Post by **Loed** » Jul 12th, 2011, 1:57 pm

God I hope that keeps up.

Captain Awesome · Post by **Captain Awesome** » Jul 12th, 2011, 5:32 pm

grammafreddy wrote:Are you in favour of extinguishing the HST (Harmonized Sales Tax) and reinstating the PST (Provincial Sales Tax) in conjunction with the GST (Goods and Services Tax)?
Yes 38.4%
No 61.6%

Hmmmmm....People are smarter than I thought.

Glacier · Post by **Glacier** » Jul 13th, 2011, 10:55 pm

The Kamloops AM station, 610 RadioNL, also has an HST poll running: