Question about HST

[Urbane]

We could go on like this all night Nab. Yes you did. No you didn't. Never mind, you don't have to explain why you're not interested in economic benefits down the road but we should all be looking ahead to the next play, as good athletes do, while keeping our eye on the ball. Vander Zalm and the NDP are strange bedfellows and within the anti-HST group in general there are strange bedfellows. The NDP, as if their custom, will happily raise taxes and spending to new heights. They're not about to become fiscal conservatives. But then you have those voting against the HST because they really don't like paying taxes at all. Once the HST is defeated the Fight HST victory party will be short-lived. Think about it. Two different (at least) political philosophies have come together to fight this tax, one of the reasons it will be defeated, but with the enemy gone (the HST) there will be a real battle for what happens next. It should be interesting. So as you think about which tax policy is better think also about the ramifications of extinguishing the HST at this time. It's not going to be as simple as some people might suggest.

[NAB]

We could go on like this all night Nab. Yes you did. No you didn't. Never mind, you don't have to explain why you're not interested in economic benefits down the road but we should all be looking ahead to the next play, as good athletes do, while keeping our eye on the ball. Vander Zalm and the NDP are strange bedfellows and within the anti-HST group in general there are strange bedfellows. The NDP, as if their custom, will happily raise taxes and spending to new heights. They're not about to become fiscal conservatives. But then you have those voting against the HST because they really don't like paying taxes at all. Once the HST is defeated the Fight HST victory party will be short-lived. Think about it. Two different (at least) political philosophies have come together to fight this tax, one of the reasons it will be defeated, but with the enemy gone (the HST) there will be a real battle for what happens next. It should be interesting. So as you think about which tax policy is better think also about the ramifications of extinguishing the HST at this time. It's not going to be as simple as some people might suggest.

Go back and read my edit to my previous post while you were posting.

Still, it is very simple in my view. Bird in the hand versus bird in the bush, where the HST is primarily the bird in the bush. Politics have nothing to do with it, remember? So quit bringing up the strange bedfellows.

Edit to add: BTW, IMO there are NO RAMIFICATIONS from extingushing the HST - "AT THIS TIME". There are many other things that are impacting and will impact the BC economy and government budgets far more over the next few years and well beyond than the HST will.

Nab

[Urbane]

Still, it is very simple in my view. Bird in the hand versus bird in the bush, where the HST is primarily the bird in the bush. Politics have nothing to do with it, remember? So quit bringing up the strange bedfellows.
Nab

Can you say "Politics have nothing to do with it" with a straight face? Tell me you're not serious about that after telling us for the last few months you want to send a message to those Liberal rascals. And now you say it has nothing to do with politics. That is truly funny Nab. Sorry, but that is hilarious.

And you have things backwards analogy-wise. The bird in the hand is the bird that you actually have and that's the HST bird. And those two poor sickly GST and PST birds are over in the bush. Let's stick with the healthy bird in the hand.

[NAB]

Still, it is very simple in my view. Bird in the hand versus bird in the bush, where the HST is primarily the bird in the bush. Politics have nothing to do with it, remember? So quit bringing up the strange bedfellows.
Nab

Can you say "Politics have nothing to do with it" with a straight face? Tell me you're not serious about that after telling us for the last few months you want to send a message to those Liberal rascals. And now you say it has nothing to do with politics. That is truly funny Nab. Sorry, but that is hilarious.

And you have things backwards analogy-wise. The bird in the hand is the bird that you actually have and that's the HST bird. And those two poor sickly GST and PST birds are over in the bush. Let's stick with the healthy bird in the hand.

It's not me who keeps bringing up politics urbane, it is you. I am a member of the Liberal Party of BC and no other, and intend to work from within, and send a message from within, as I have said before.

Anyway, this is getting very boring, repetitive, and a large waste of my time. Tomorrow I will make my decision and vote accordingly. Then I intend to stock the wheels and hit the road to wherever it takes me. Have a great summer and I will see you all back here in the fall God willing.

Take care all...

Nab

[FunkyBunch]

Theoretically, right now, I think HST is more of a bird in the hand than the bird in the bush.
Without the HST, we don't know what the province will do to balance the budget. Will they just cut services? Will they raise income taxes? Raise the PST? Eliminate PST exemptions? Raise corporate income taxes?

At least with the HST, we have a reasonable idea of what will happen, not to mention it largely only affects "luxury/discretionary" spending.

[Bestside]

It's quite distressing how many people think the Federal Gov. gave BC $1.6 Billion without getting anything in return...
You know really.... the only time they give out money is to buy votes .... (will not happen with HST) .... or to get much more cash back than they put out... (will happen with HST) ...

Anyone that thinks the CRA did NOT run the numbers and come up with a $1.6 Billion number to buy a perpetual Canadian "life-time" annuity to rake in multiple billions in extra business taxes is not paying attention...

Consider the stated purpose of this entire HST exercise:
1. to eliminate sales tax on business inputs...
2. eliminating tax on input costs equals more business profit...
3. more business profit equals more business tax accruing to the government(s)...
4. to increase sales tax to the general consumer, so as to offset the loss of sales tax due to business exemptions in No. 1.
5. to smoke the peace pipe and declare "revenue neutral" due to a one time gift of hush money...

In that regard it was agreed between the Province and the Fed that the HST agreement cannot be changed for 3 to 4 years for the express purpose of the Federal government having time to recoup their $1.6 Billion expenditure through increased taxes.

In effect the consumer is the building block on which their increased burden of sales tax is transferd directly to business profits, and rather than going directly to Provincial coffers as was the case with PST... the cash transfer will be shared with the Federal Gov. perpetually... forever...

This leakage of consumer money from the Province to the Federal government, that will increase in value as the economy grows, should be a major concern to everyone.

The bottom line is there will be no need to reimburse the Federal Gov. the $1.6 Billion if they have already recouped it through increased tax base.

[twobits]

Volume of posts to read on Castanet reduced by 50%........till fall anyway.

[sjkean]

Reminder to vote and mail your HST Referendum!

[Mr. Personality]

Remember, when you vote to keep the HST at a lower rate of 10%, vote NO.

Neb, you too?? The HST is NOT at 10% and will NOT BE at 10% until 2014 THREE YEARS FROM NOW!!

And what will the PST+GST be 3 years from now?

[dsldriver]

Top Seven HST Myths
The BC Liberal "myths" about the HST just keep piling up.
We don't have the budget to fight the lies, we need your help. Keep
the message going by forwarding this link to all the people you know
and ask them to do the same.
Following is their latest Top Seven - all new and misleading as ever -
HST Myths:
1. The HST is now 10% - False
The HST is 12% and will not be 10% for three years - if ever. There
will be an election before that, and even if the HST were to
miraculously drop to 10% - it will still apply to hundreds more goods
and services than a 12% PST/GST for a consumer tax increase of $1.6B
per year. And who says it won't go right back up again later?

2. The HST will lower taxes - False
This one is hilarious. The HST increases taxes for British Columbians
by $2.8 Billion per year. That's an average annual increase of $500
per person - or $1208 per average family - forever. Finance Minister
Falcon says if his side loses he may disregard the result and expand
the PST to items previously exempt - and that's illegal. Do you
really trust this guy to cut the rate if he wins?

3. The HST will save you money - False
And the tooth fairy is going to leave you a quarter under your pillow
too. To get their numbers to show the HST actually "saving" you money
they are calculating only "routine purchases" and that 90% of what you
pay in HST will be passed back to you in lower prices. Have you seen
lower prices?... We didn't think so.

4. The HST benefits seniors - False
Seniors and people on fixed incomes are some of the hardest hit by the
HST. A onetime rebate of $175 if you vote in favour of their tax in
exchange for paying it for the next 10-30 years of your retirement is
a deal only a snake oil salesman would offer. Why take $175 when you
can vote to cancel the HST and keep all your money? How dumb do they
think we are?

5. The HST benefits families - False
Next to seniors, working families are hardest hit by the HST because
they are among the largest consumers and have dependent children.
Bribes of $175 per child when your cost is closer to $400 a year each
makes you wonder if they think all of us failed math as badly as they
did. And what about a single mom with two kids going to college? She
gets nothing while the Premier and Finance Minister who earn big six
figure salaries get the rebate. Nice.

6. Business will pay more so you can pay less - False
A temporary increase of 2% in corporate taxes will be passed on to
consumers with increased prices. Either way you pay the final bill
whether it's in HST or higher prices.

7. We will owe $1.6 Billion if we cancel the HST - False
The "Independent Panel" says the HST generated $850 million more than
budgeted. Setting aside that is the biggest tax grab in history, it
means government already has $850 million to repay Ottawa. BC has only
received $1B, and Ottawa collected $300M more in corporate taxes under
the HST than under the PST. So it's a wash. And keeping the HST would
cost British Columbians a lot more than killing it - over $28 Billion
in new taxes in just 10 years.
Vote YES to extinguish the HST and save your province, your democracy,
and your money!

[dsldriver]

10% instead of 12% HST is good RIGHT? Not So Fast!
The Liberals are SPINNING!
With 2 or more kids it's not hard to spend $1000 for back to school.
This summer when you shop for school supplies and clothes & shoes (for kids under 16 in adult sizes) consider what you used to pay in tax, what you currently pay in tax, and what you MIGHT get to pay in tax in 3 years.

Old System: PST (7%) and GST (5%)
Spend $1000 PAY $50.00 GST, no PST

Current System 12% HST
Spend $1000 pay $120.00 HST
In 2012 pay 11% HST
Spend $1000 pay $110.00 HST

In 2014 pay 10% HST (if they can be believed)
Spend $1000 pay $100.00 HST

I think a good deal would be to go back to that $50/$1000 spending in taxes I used to pay rather than hope they follow through with the reduction that would allow me to only pay twice as much at $100/$1000 of spending.

I am getting tired of hearing everyone tell me that reducing the HST by 2% means we will pay less. Just because it's less than what we are paying now doesn't mean it's less than we were paying 2 years ago for many items we purchased. Granted those items that were subject to both PST and HST will be lower IF they reduce in 3 years. We first must believe they will AND then we must wait until 2014. A one-time payment for kids and low income seniors isn't enough to pay back what I will spend.

Seems Christy Clark and the Liberals AREN'T putting Families first, just their political careers!

BUT no worries, one of those places that has less tax now than before is some thrift stores ---- we can all shop there! Reason for no tax is any used clothing has no GST and therefore no HST under the new rules.

* the tax amount scenario above applies to all items that used to be PST exempt under the old system that are now subject to HST such as:
Lease of Alternative Fuel Vehicle and Fuel Efficient Vehicle
Purchase of an Alternative Fuel Vehicle and Fuel Efficient Vehicle
Motor Vehicle Parking
Admission to Professional Sporting Events (e.g., Hockey, Football and Soccer Games)
Movie Tickets
Golf Memberships
Driving Range Fees
Gym and Athletic Memberships
Ballet, Karate, Trampoline, Hockey, Soccer Lessons etc.
Tickets for Live Theatre
Admission to Museums and Art Galleries
Music Concerts
Ski Lift Passes
Camping Sites
Domestic Air, Rail and Bus Travel Originating in British Columbia
Snack Foods (e.g., Chips and Pop)
Restaurant Meals
Massage Therapy Services
Over-the-Counter Medications
Vitamins
Newspapers
Certain School Supplies
Magazines
EnergyStar Windows
Thermal Insulation, Weather Stripping and Caulking
First Aid Kits
Smoke Detectors Valued Less Than $250 for Residential Use
Food Producing Plants and Trees (e.g., Tomato Plants, Plum Tree)
Household Moving Services
Safety Helmets for Sports (e.g., Hockey Helmets, Snowboard Helmets, Bike Helmets)
Bicycles
Adult Sized Ski Gloves for Children
Adult Sized Ski Boots for Children
Children’s Sized Ski Boots
Adult Sized Clothing for Children
Shoe Repair
Tailoring Services
Used Adult Clothing Purchased for Less Than $100
Taxis
Domestic Air, Rail, and Bus Travel Originating in B.C.
Camping Sites
Basic Cable Television
Local Residential Phone
Repair to Certain Household Appliances (e.g., Stoves, Ovens, Refrigerators, Washers, and Dryers)
Repair, Maintenance or Renovation Services for Real Property (e.g., Plumbing Electrical Wiring)
Landscaping, Lawn-Care, Private Snow Removal and House Cleaning
Computer Software Repair Services (e.g., virus removal or software installation)
Funeral Services
Fitness Trainer
Hair Stylist/Barber
Esthetician Services (e.g., Manicures, Pedicures, Facials)
Accounting Services
Interior Design Services
Wedding Planning Services
Veterinarian Services
Dry Cleaning
Catering and Event Planning Services (e.g., planning, consulting, coordinating and organizing)





Vote YES to eliminate the HST to go back to the old PST/GST System.
Funny that you have to vote YES when you really mean NO - I don't want to keep the tax!!!

If you decide to vote NO and keep the HST make sure you understand what it's all about and aren't just buying into SPIN!

[dsldriver]

i love how the ads by the pro HST people say, vote yes to pay 12%, and vote no to pay 10%.


FALSE ADVERTISING AT IT'S WORST. VERY MISLEADING AND I HOPE PEOPLE DON'T FALL FOR IT.

After all, we now how few promises the Liberal party has kept in this province since getting into power. They even tore up contracts with the nurses. Get rid of the Liberals, and send this province forward!!!!

[Glacier]

FALSE ADVERTISING AT IT'S WORST. VERY MISLEADING AND I HOPE PEOPLE DON'T FALL FOR IT.

I won't be falling for it, and I agree that this is FALSE ADVERTISING AT IT'S[sic] WORST. Now pray tell me why did you post such false and misleading advertising? You do realize that what you posted is false and misleading advertising for the anti-HST side, right?