Are we sick enough with the HST stick-man ads yet?

[flamingfingers]

The referendum is about the HST, but was predicated by a extensive recent history of lies and broken promises and the electorate had had enough. The government lost the confidence of the people.

The bolded part is what is important, the rest is irrelevant until an actual election.

THIS REFERENDUM IS NOT AN ELECTION.

I tend to side with my5 here. IF the government of the day could come out an say:

"we have spent the province into an abysmal deep hole that enticed us to take the fed bait of 1.6 billion to sign onto the HST and the HST is gonna tax the snot out of you for 2 years, and then at 11% it will only tax most of the snot outta you for another 2 years and then it will drop to 10% (unless we decide otherwise) which will still tax the snot out of you, but it will at least save our pink backsides and claw us part way out of this abysmal deep hole - at least enough that we can give ourselves another 30% pay raise by which time most of us will have reached eligibility to get the heck out of politics with our severance pay and gold-plated pensions intact.."

I could probably feel some empathy for them. At least they would be stating an honest fact. As it stands, the government of the day is misleading us, threatening us and USING OUR TAX DOLLARS TO DO IT!! They are morally and ethically bankrupt. If not downright criminal in this context. And they have worked hard to deserve this.

[steven lloyd]

I agree with you 100% flaming. However, even if this electorate used this referendum to send a loud and clear message to this government that it had lost the confidence of the people it would not register. This electorate has clearly demonstrated to this government that it is willing to be screwed over time and again, so why would they (the government) strive to be accountable for anything at this point? Until this electorate develops the cajones to vote this government out of power, we will be stuck with the status quo. It’s hard to imagine how bad things can yet get but I’m confident we’ll find out.

[grammafreddy]

I don't see how the HST referendum can send a loud and clear message to this government about non-confidence. It strikes me that we are damned whatever we do with it.

If the majority vote to keep the HST, the government will pat themselves on the back for getting away with the lies they told the people.

If the majority vote to ditch the HST, the government has made no promises about what will be reinstated - and at what rate. We have assumed it will be the old PST exactly as it was, at the rate that it was and on the things that it was. They have not said anything about that.

All the former PST government workers got "laid off" their provincial jobs, got a severance package, got their gold pensions and got hired by the federal government without skipping a day's wages. Will we now do the same only in reverse? Will we now fire all those federal HST workers, pay them out with severance and all, and rehire them back here? That's a chunk of jingle, you know, to be paying it twice.

Add to that the cost of reinventing all the systems for collecting the PST again plus the "advance" we *cough* received from the Feds for buying into this foolery which supposedly has to be paid back and we are now into the gazillions of dollars to go back to the PST.

Somehow, I really do doubt the BC government is going to just swallow that and not cut something else in order to fund this reversal. There will be a price to pay ... and I fully expect the PST to go up to pay it. I would not be surprised if it goes up to 7 or even 8%, plus the GST which makes it a bundle of more than the HST was at 12%. I also expect things that previously were exempt from the PST will now be taxable.

I can see the Liberals being vindictive like that - but they will, of course, tell us that we made that decision with this HST referendum if we vote the HST down.

[flamingfingers]

GF - I must caution you: Do Not Believe what the government of the day says. I Do Not Believe it will be the end of life on earth if the HST goes down in flames. The PST will be reinstated (but when?) as it was over a year ago and I could find you the link to it. I am getting tired now but from Elections BC back when the referendum was slated, it was fact.

[my5cents]

The referendum is about the HST, but was predicated by a extensive recent history of lies and broken promises and the electorate had had enough. The government lost the confidence of the people.

The bolded part is what is important, the rest is irrelevant until an actual election.

THIS REFERENDUM IS NOT AN ELECTION.

Oh ? really !

No, the governments recent history is not irrelevant. If a party has been involved in questionable dealings, broken promises and outright lies, at some point they've done one crooked deal too many. That was the HST.

I don't know, maybe if the government had been a great government up to that point and hadn't lied on many occasions and haden't broken promises maybe the HST would not have resulted in this referendum. We'll never know, will we.

[Nebula]

Ridiculous to vote against the HST because you don't like a political party.

[flamingfingers]

Ridiculous to vote against the HST because you don't like a political party.

I take it then that you are quite happy to have the snot taxed out of you forever and ever?

Well then you are an ideal Liberal ideologist.

[Nebula]

Ridiculous to vote against the HST because you don't like a political party.

I take it then that you are quite happy to have the snot taxed out of you forever and ever?

Well then you are an ideal Liberal ideologist.

You can take it whatever way you want to. Don't bother me.

If someone says they've looked at both sides (without all the freaking rhetoric) and decided to vote X because they believe that will be the best for them/their family/the province, have at it. But to vote against the HST because you don't like the Liberals? Phfffft.

[grammafreddy]

Ridiculous to vote against the HST because you don't like a political party.

I take it then that you are quite happy to have the snot taxed out of you forever and ever?

Well then you are an ideal Liberal ideologist.

Isn't the PST a tax, too?

[Nebula]

Apparently some people have figured out that 12% HST (10% by 2014) + Liberal is more than 5% GST + 7% PST.

[flamingfingers]

But most rational people HAVE figured out that the more items taxed under the HST DOES make quite a difference!

[Al Czervic]

But in more general terms it can apply to any democratic country in Europe or NA, really. Democratic process while wonderful as a concept has serious flaws. Since govt is elected, the ones who want to get elected are the ones who promise heaven on earth to voters. Bit by bit, we have a healthcare system that cost 50 cents out of every tax dollar. And other bells and whistles of today's society. And this is a never ending cycle, really. It's akin to kids choosing their parents based on who promises most toys.

I believe some philosopher/economist from 18 century predicted this a long time ago. Can't remember his name, studied this in school a while ago.

It never ceases to amaze me how often and how consistently you come up with these nuggets of insight. Somewhere along the way you definitely found wisdom. Whoever gave you that gift, thank them, you are a better person for it.

[Nebula]

But most rational people HAVE figured out that the more items taxed under the HST DOES make quite a difference!

I understand the math you talk about. I understand you would rather go back to the old system and have rich people buy toys with no PST attached. And I understand that 12%HST + Liberal is more than 5%GST + 7%PST. I get it.

[Captain Awesome]

It never ceases to amaze me how often and how consistently you come up with these nuggets of insight. Somewhere along the way you definitely found wisdom.

Oh no, it wasn't me who came up with all that, I just happen to agree with Winston Churchill -

The best argument against democracy is a five minute conversation with the average voter.

[flamingfingers]

But most rational people HAVE figured out that the more items taxed under the HST DOES make quite a difference!

I understand the math you talk about. I understand you would rather go back to the old system and have rich people buy toys with no PST attached. And I understand that 12%HST + Liberal is more than 5%GST + 7%PST. I get it.

Only problem here Neb that with the HST, while capturing 'the rich' who can shrug off the extra tax because of the amount of their income, the lower income people find it hard to come up with the extra bucks at the end of the month. You are to be congratulated that the extra taxation can be none of your consideration.