Poverty costs BC $9 billion a year

[oneh2obabe]

By: Jon Woodward, ctvbc.ca
Date: Wednesday Jul. 13, 2011 6:49 PM PT

Poverty costs B.C as much as $9 billion a year, while solutions for poverty may cost less than half that amount, according to the first study of its kind.

If the province invests to solve poverty now, anti-poverty measures could turn out to be a good investment, according to a report by Canadian Centre for Policy Alternatives economist Iglika Ivanova.

"Poverty is not free," Ivanova told CTV News. "It is more expensive to keep poverty as it is than it is to deal with it."

The conclusion is in a report that is due to be released Thursday. An advance copy was provided to CTV News by the CCPA, a left-leaning think tank.

The idea that the costs of dealing with a social ill outweigh the costs of addressing the ill head-on is not new – a study by Simon Fraser University estimated the cost of homelessness to B.C. is $644 million a year, while building social housing costs less.

But this is the first time anyone in B.C. has attempted to gauge the entire cost of the much wider issue of being poor, defined by the CCPA as being in the bottom 20 per cent of income. In the report, the CCPA used data that showed the poor are more likely to use health care services and be affected by crime.

"The realities of living in poverty drive people to desperation, panhandling and stealing," said Ivanova.

She found that the poor cost $1.15 billion more in health care and $744 million in crime than the next income bracket and cost the economy between $5.9 and $6.9 billion in lost productivity. Ivanova measured the total cost was between $8.1 and $9.2 billion per year.

As much as $2.3 billion of that figure was a direct cost to government, while between $5.9 and $6.9 billion was in lower economic activity and foregone earnings.

By comparison, a previous study by the CCPA estimated that the costs of a comprehensive poverty reduction plan would be between $3 and $4 billion. That plan involved raising the minimum wage and increasing income assistance.

Most government ministers were at a caucus retreat and could not be reached for comment Wednesday, but a government spokesman said B.C. already is investing millions in social housing because of studies that show stopping homelessness saves money on policing and health care costs.

However, the spokesman said he doubted that any anti-poverty measures could save the government or the economy billions. Instead, the cost was more likely to be borne by government with no guaranteed return.

SFU economist Krishna Penakur told CTV News that even though the CCPA report was not published in a peer-reviewed journal, he expected it would spark more research into the costs of poverty in the province.

"This is a massively under-researched area," Pendakur said. "It's a great first step to get people interested in quantifying this thing -- this waste of public sector resources associated with having people being very poor. But it's not the end of the story. It's more like the beginning of the story."

The report was no surprise to New Westminster resident Thomas Page. The 58-year-old used to run a computer business, but was diagnosed with bipolar disorder and fibromyalgia, and has been on disability ever since.

Most of his medications are covered by the provincial government, but the one that makes the most difference for his fibromyalgia, Lyrica, wasn't.

"The funding was pulled for that, and I can't afford it," he said. Two capsules of Lyrica cost about $5 a day, according to Canada's Patented Medicine Prices Review Board, or about $150 a month – about one sixth of Page's income on disability.

An investment in funding that medication – a relatively small amount, he says – would allow him to work, and save the government much more in disability payments.

Article with news video
http://www.ctvbc.ctv.ca/servlet/an/loca ... lumbiaHome

[fvkasm2x]

By: Jon Woodward, ctvbc.ca
Date: Wednesday Jul. 13, 2011 6:49 PM PT

Poverty costs B.C as much as $9 billion a year, while solutions for poverty may cost less than half that amount, according to the first study of its kind.

How much would airfare be for all the bums and people on welfare? Surely more than half that amount...

[Al Czervic]

If the solution to eliminating poverty was as simple as dumping in more money then Canada’s first nations would be some of the wealthiest citizen’s around. In reality dumping more money in only leads to more corruption and greater poverty. Of course it is politically incorrect to admit such things so instead we continue to play these games pretending that dumping more money into the wallets of the povetarians (those who profits from the poor) somehow will make a lick of a difference.

[grammafreddy]

Dumping more money in the same old ways just enables them to continue the same old ways. Nothing changes.

[coffeeFreak]

This discussion could easily apply to our medical system too...as long as we "keep doing what we're doing, we'll keep getting what we're getting". The reality is, poverty (and medicare) costs society big time; the problem is, the approach or attempts at solutions continue to be made in the same way and it continues to be ineffective. Soooo as long as nothing changes, nothing changes." Maybe this is why apathy among the populace is alive and well heh(?) -- because nothing changes.

[twobits]

When this left wing think tank issues a report, all one has to do is read the headline. From that you will know the contents of the entire report and that it will only take a few billion tax dollars to correct.

[coffeeFreak]

When this left wing think tank issues a report, all one has to do is read the headline. From that you will know the contents of the entire report and that it will only take a few billion tax dollars to correct.

Left wing, right wing, who gives a crap where it comes from. The report makes some interesting points, and yes the reality is, poverty (and medicare) costs society big time now and in the future...something different must be done.

[grammafreddy]

When this left wing think tank issues a report, all one has to do is read the headline. From that you will know the contents of the entire report and that it will only take a few billion tax dollars to correct.

Left wing, right wing, who gives a crap where it comes from. The report makes some interesting points, and yes the reality is, poverty (and medicare) costs society big time now and in the future...something different must be done.

Sometimes it makes a HUGE difference where a report or study comes from. However, in this case, the information is not being channeled (that I can see) toward any political leaning but appears to be identifying issues and causes. I don't see solutions in it, though.

I agree ... something needs to change in both how we deal with poverty and how we deal with healthcare. What we are doing is NOT working.

[Bagotricks]

Capitalism needs rampant poverty, just like the illegal drug trade needs a steady supply of people with nothing to lose to absorb the charges/jail time and do the dirty work.

If everyone succeeded - then what? Who would serve the fries and wash the toilets? Who wil lwork in the factories and answer the phones? Everyone's teenagers? The game is rigged from the get go. Everyone KNOWS you cant survive off minimum wage - so why is is set to below poverty levels?

It's just selfish greed and lust of power that keeps people in their place. The middle class lost 15% of their influence on the economy and the top 5% earners absorbed it over the last 20 years. They need more wealth, right?

Poverty could be solved overnight, but then our economy would tank. Hence - we need slaves.

Why did people come to North America years ago?

Slavery was legal - and it still is ;) Poverty isn't going anywhere. Just keep on chasing that carrot on a stick!

What this report doesn't say is how much money is MADE off of poverty. How much money did restaurant owners make by paying summer workers 6 bucks a hour for the last few years? How much money is made by giving people 35 hours a week and not paying out for benefits? Its a nice little scam.

[coffeeFreak]

What this report doesn't say is how much money is MADE off of poverty.

So very true Bago!

[Bagotricks]

What this report doesn't say is how much money is MADE off of poverty.

So very true Bago!

*cough* Payday loan companies *cough*

*cough* Rent-to-own Stores *cough*

*cough* The housing crisis - giving people mortgages when they didn't have jobs *cough*

*cough* High interest credit cards *cough*

*cough* Post secondary education costs increasing 250% in the last 20 years - your only ticket to NOT being poor *cough*

*cough* economy BASED on consumer debt and materialism *cough*

I'm coming down with a cough!

[grammafreddy]

What this report doesn't say is how much money is MADE off of poverty.

So very true Bago!

*cough* Payday loan companies *cough*

*cough* Rent-to-own Stores *cough*

*cough* The housing crisis - giving people mortgages when they didn't have jobs *cough*

*cough* High interest credit cards *cough*

*cough* Post secondary education costs increasing 250% in the last 20 years - your only ticket to NOT being poor *cough*

*cough* economy BASED on consumer debt and materialism *cough*

I'm coming down with a cough!

Gee, I am so sorry to hear you are so ill.

Perhaps you have a terminal case of over-consumerism mixed with a hefty infection from irresponsible budgeting.

I'd have that checked out, if I were you. It can kill ya.

[coffeeFreak]

What this report doesn't say is how much money is MADE off of poverty.

So very true Bago!

*cough* Payday loan companies *cough*

*cough* Rent-to-own Stores *cough*

*cough* The housing crisis - giving people mortgages when they didn't have jobs *cough*

*cough* High interest credit cards *cough*

*cough* Post secondary education costs increasing 250% in the last 20 years - your only ticket to NOT being poor *cough*

*cough* economy BASED on consumer debt and materialism *cough*

I'm coming down with a cough!

I was thinking of a totally different group/industry Bago -- government agencies that administering funds, along with a multitude of govt funded nonprofits: Financial Assistance, Child protection, Health services, child-tax and income bonus benefits, correctional institutions, justice system, mental health, addiction treatment centres, community counselling services, homeless shelters, subsidized medical, dental, housing, childcare, training...this list could go on and on.

It seems to me, that the administration of these govt services would suck up a lot of the mula available for "helping" the poor; actually, possibly even more than what eventually makes its way down to the people it was intended for?

[Bagotricks]

Gee, I am so sorry to hear you are so ill.

Perhaps you have a terminal case of over-consumerism mixed with a hefty infection from irresponsible budgeting.

I'd have that checked out, if I were you. It can kill ya.

Oh GF. In order to get a post secondary education and not be poor you need to drop 40+ grand down on tuition and books. Plus pay for food and shelter while your doing 40 hours a week of classes. I know every 18 year old has that in their back pocket from working weekends at Burger King right?

They get you started off early on living and surviving in debt. I know and have picked up on your "Ive done it so can you" attitude - but we are not all like you, or the irresponsible teenagers you love to hate ;) The system has changed in your lifetime.

Irresponsible Budgeting? Wages have stayed static for years yet the cost of living goes up and up. I had to shell out close to 4 grand on wisdom teeth removal. Do you have $3800 to spare this month? Why is that not covered by BC Medical? I got 2 infections and went to the doctor 4 times before I finally had to shell out because I couldn't fall asleep for a week because of the pain. That went right on the credit card with 18% interest - no choice in the matter. I'm such a irresponsible materialistic consumer, terrible I know.

Also GF - if people weren't not buying things they couldn't afford then our economy would TANK. Remember 9/11 and George Bush PLEADING with the public to go back to the shopping malls?

You think that corps shouldn't pay ANY taxes so the economy will grow - so you must also believe that the general public has a duty to perform and buy things they don't need to support this economy as well - considering that is what our current economy is based on. The alternative is that people stay at home and save what they can on their reduced and insufficient wages - and the economy goes belly up. Pick and choose. Either that or support a alternative to Capitalism. You cant have Capitalism without poverty!

[Bagotricks]

What this report doesn't say is how much money is MADE off of poverty.

So very true Bago!

*cough* Payday loan companies *cough*

*cough* Rent-to-own Stores *cough*

*cough* The housing crisis - giving people mortgages when they didn't have jobs *cough*

*cough* High interest credit cards *cough*

*cough* Post secondary education costs increasing 250% in the last 20 years - your only ticket to NOT being poor *cough*

*cough* economy BASED on consumer debt and materialism *cough*

I'm coming down with a cough!

I was thinking of a totally different group/industry Bago -- government agencies that administering funds, along with a multitude of govt funded nonprofits: Financial Assistance, Child protection, Health services, child-tax and income bonus benefits, correctional institutions, justice system, mental health, addiction treatment centres, community counselling services, homeless shelters, subsidized medical, dental, housing, childcare, training...this list could go on and on.

It seems to me, that the administration of these govt services would suck up a lot of the mula available for "helping" the poor; actually, possibly even more than what eventually makes its way down to the people it was intended for?

Well you just identified the scam. Who pays those government wages and pays for those social programs? THE TAXPAYER. You and I do.

Income is mainly obtained by working for it here in Canada. A few select people have money making them more money, but mainly we have to get a job and make money to have it. Jobs = money.

But most jobs don't pay well anymore. Union busting and shareholder accountability (greed) have made wages shrink compared to cost of living. This is all fact. How many people at or below the poverty line? When did the term "working poor" come about?

So the factory owner pays his employees 9 bucks a hour. Everyone knows you cant survive off 9/hour - but hey he has to make a buck too, the factory owner. He makes a widget and sells it for 129.99. He makes millions. He is a "success".

Meanwhile, everyone elses taxes go up, because factory worker Bobs pension was cut, his benefits scaled back and his hours reduced to 38.5 a week so he can kiss stat and overtime pay goodbye. Bob's kids need lunches for school. Bobs kids need dental work. Bob cant afford to live.

Factory owner makes extra cake, and the taxpayers make up the difference that the factory owner left behind. As seen - taxes will "always" go up and people don't do a thing except whine - but in the end they pay. If the factory owner paid higher wages - he would make only 1 million instead of 4 this year. Instead of paying better wages he just passes the buck to - the taxpayer! Its almost like the HST. Business gets a break and we pay for it! Poverty makes people money, pretty basic.

I don't think that social workers have their fingers crossed that people stay poor. Infact - the government is "friends" with the people that benefit most from poverty. Staffing agencies to deal with the poor is just part of the game. After all its not coming out of their pockets, and the policy/law makers all make 100K a year plus pensions and golden benefit packages. The economy needs a steady supply of slaves. Its just that simple, the game is rigged.

Loansharking is illegal but I can walk into a Payday loan company and pay 200 for a 1000 dollar advance. Who uses those companies? People that cant get bank accounts because they are poor. People who have unexpected expenses come up, and cant afford them because they are poor. Predatory to the ninth degree.

A guy won the Nobel peace prize for creating "micro-loans" - zero interest small loans that help people break out of the "poverty cycle". Just study the poverty cycle to see how this is a built in part of our society to keep the kings in their castles. The majority of Canadians live cheque to cheque. Think about it. 70% of people 2 weeks away from the streets.