BC Ferries losing money

[sooperphreek]

build a bridge.......

[NAB]

Impossible. Got any workable ideas?

Nab

[sooperphreek]

thats why china and other countries are moving ahead and we are still shucking for oil. they wont say its impossible. they would do it.

[twobits]

Impossible. Got any workable ideas?

Nab

Of course the freek won't put forth any workable ideas. That's because anyone that has paid any attention for the last two decades knows it is not feasible. Instead you get the brilliant response that we just continue shucking for oil.

ETA- Hey Nab......maybe you can poke around and find some oil on the island for us. That might even justify a bridge and pay for it too!

[NAB]

LOL.. will cod liver oil suffice?

Nab

[Dash5]

And I continually shake my head at how "they" can justify that Mill Bay - Brentwood Bay service.

Nab

Makes one wonder what they did before convenience.

Admittedly I haven't read all 25 pages of posts in this thread so this may have been addressed previously but speaking of convenience, what about those Arrow Lakes (and all of the other inland freshwater) ferries?? How much do we pay to keep them running and why are they free??

[Dash5]

It may just be my imagination, or simply the circles I move in, but it seems to me much of the whining about rate increases on small island hops and opposition to service cuts originates from two islands - Salt Spring and Gabriola. Texada Island of course is accessed from Powell River on the mainland, so has little to do with Main Island - small island links irritations.

Not disagreeing with you but I'm a little confused by the statement about Texada Island above, not quite sure what you are getting at.

Sure, Powell River may technically be on the mainland but since there are no roads connecting PR to the rest of the mainland (other than extremely rough seasonal 4x4 trails that go vast distances through very rugged terrain) and the only real ways in or out are by air or ferry, PR is actually more of an island than "The Island" is! It only takes an hour and a half on 1 ferry to get to and from Vancouver Island from the lower mainland (and you have multiple options on where you would like to cross), but it takes 2 ferries with a drive on a crappy windy road in between to get to PR.

In any case, my point is that I just don't understand the Texada comment because in fact it is much more of a hassle getting to and from Texada than most of the other Gulf Islands.

[NAB]

Here's an article regarding Salt Spring Island, which I consider the noisyest "squeaky wheel", the best serviced of them all, yet with a declining population and 3, yes THREE ferry terminals :eyeballspin: . My suggestion is that they be reduced to one like most other Islands (if they are lucky enough to have any vehicle capable ferry service at all). Leave them with an upgraded Crofton run and let them deal with it like any community anywhere else with one road in and one road out (often the same road LOL)! And if people want to commute to the mainland, let them link to the main ferries and their routes which have all kinds of spare capacity like everyone else has to! Spare capacity which, if used, could lead to reduced fares for everyone travelling to and from the mainland.
Nab

"For a small town on an island, Ganges is remarkably well connected.
The bustling commercial centre of Salt Spring Island has good roads, a local bus service and even a downtown airport — if you count the harbour where seaplanes regularly land and take off. Within a few kilometres it has three ferry terminals that provide reliable links to other Gulf Islands, the mainland, Victoria and Vancouver Island north of the Malahat.
The ferries are among the most heavily used of the minor routes operated by British Columbia Ferry Services Inc., the quasi-private company that runs the ferries under contract to the provincial government.
For the people who live on the largest and most heavily populated of the Southern Gulf Islands, who are an eclectic mix of new money, old hippies, ordinary working families and everyone in between, the ferries are as important to the patterns of life as the rising of the morning sun.
But the ferry service is in trouble. It’s losing money. Ridership is down across the system. The loss of revenue in a system run with the principle of “user pay” adds to the pressure to raise fares.
The fixed schedules also mean that ferries are running with less than full loads. So the province has hired a consultant who is to report back on ways to rationalize service. Not surprisingly, that’s being interpreted as making some cuts, a view that was strongly telegraphed by Blair Lekstrom before he was replaced as B.C.’s transportation minister by Mary Polak.
“When we’ve got ferries that aren’t running at capacity and we’ve got an organization that’s having a difficult time delivering that level of service with that few of passengers, you’ve got to go in and have a re-evaluation of the service you are providing,” Lekstrom said in a telephone interview.
Lekstrom knows he represents a view of the ferry service that isn’t very popular on the islands where the ferries are perceived as an extension of the highway system.
“People don’t like hearing this, I know, but if you choose to live on an island, that’s a quality-of-life choice you are making. If I choose to live in the northern part of the province I know my costs to take my children to the Children’s Hospital in Vancouver, for example, are significantly more than for people who live in the northern mainland. That’s a choice we make as families,” he said.
Islanders don’t reject that view out of hand. Many do choose to live on an island. They don’t want bridges, even if they were practical, that would turn their idyllic retreats into boring bedroom suburbs for the nearest cities.
But they argue that any changes have to respect the way that they have historically shaped their lives, their businesses and their investments in their homes around the premise that their highway system — which just happens to run on the water — will continue to operate as it always has.
As chairman of the Salt Spring Island Ferry Advisory Committee, Harold Swierenga knows how even small changes can make a big difference.
“People build their lives around a certain schedule. They get a job, they have to be at that job at a certain time at the mill in Crofton or over in Victoria or whatever and if you change too much it can really distort something that they base their whole life on,” he says.
“If you change a sailing by half an hour you will foul somebody up.”
Robert Steinbach, the president of the Salt Spring Island Chamber of Commerce, moved to the island four years ago from Toronto. He says the rising fares increase the price of everything else. In a letter to the province last year calling for an increase in the provincial subsidy, he pointed out that it already costs more to buy groceries and fill a car with gas and that people who work on the island can’t expect to be paid a similar premium.
The only thing falling has been the value of real estate. Local realtors estimate the price of housing has fallen by about a third since mid-2007. And people have moved away. The population of Salt Spring dropped from 10,464 to 9,780 between 2006 and 2010.
Steinbach, who owns Moby’s Oyster Bar at the head of Ganges Harbour, argues that maintaining affordable ferries is an issue that should concern more than just island residents because of its effect on tourism, which should be considered a “core industry” in B.C.
“Tourists will spend a lot of money if we have a good offering and we do have a tremendous offering here on Salt Spring, particularly, but in lots of other communities as well and if we don’t facilitate tourists being able to get there, then we can’t expect them to leave their dollars with us and help support our economy.”
Like most of the minor routes, those serving Salt Spring are all losing money. As ridership declines, they lose more.
Swierenga concedes that having three ferry terminals may not be the most efficient way to serve the island. Starting from scratch today, it might make sense to have just two. But moving terminals is prohibitively expensive because of the roads and infrastructure needed to serve them.
The three routes leading off Salt Spring head in different directions, just like the roads leaving any town on the mainland.
To the west is the shortest run between Vesuvius Bay on Salt Spring and the mill town of Crofton on the Vancouver Island side. It’s the route for commuters who work at the mill, for anyone heading up toward Nanaimo and the main supply route for many of the businesses in Ganges.
On the south side is the Fulford Harbour-to-Schwartz Bay run. It’s the connection to Victoria and a transfer point for people who are heading to Tsawwassen.
The third terminal, in Long Harbour, a short distance to the east of Ganges, also serves travellers heading to the mainland on a ferry that makes stops at other islands along the way. It’s the only one of the three routes that can be reserved. It’s often full in the summer while running with much lighter loads in the winter, as do most of the ferries in the system.
Swierenga says the fare increases that have been imposed since the Liberals launched the new company have already changed the way people use the ferries.
“My wife and I are retired here but we at least have pensions. Every time you take a ferry now it’s a multiple-purpose trip,” he says.
Swierenga speculates that the habit of travelling off the island less may be a hard one to break and that could make it more difficult to stem the decline in ridership.
“Ridership may not come back unless there’s an increase in population.”
Still, like most islanders, both the Salt Spring Island Chamber of Commerce and the Ferry Advisory Committee believe the only long-term solution is for the province to increase its subsidy so fares can be reduced or at least held to the rate of inflation, as the Ferry Commissioner urged in his report earlier this year.
That isn’t going to happen, says Lekstrom, setting the table for difficult negotiations ahead."

http://www.timescolonist.com/news/bc-po ... story.html

[twobits]

No matter how you slice it and dice it, three ferry terminals for a community of less than 10 k is just a crazy waste of money. Someone with some stones needs to stand up to these utopian livestyle seekers and say enough already? Can't get to your job at the mill in Croften? Then move to Croften or get a job on your island paradise. We're sick of paying for your lifestyle.

[NAB]

One thing I think many mainlanders need to grasp is that there is a considerable difference between Vancouver Island itself and the small Gulf Islands. It's not really even reasonable to apply the same perception of "Islanders" to main Vancouver Island residents and businesses as gets applied to those who live and/or have businesses on the many small Islands. For the most part, life and business on the main island is little different than any other defined region on the mainland.

For the most part people who choose to live on the smaller islands as a lifestyle choice recognize the "convenience" of that lifestyle compared to the main Island has limitations and extra costs, including a more limited real estate market, particularly during tougher times. I know many people who, as the convenience of that small island lifestyle declines and the costs of maintaining it increase, generally fall into two camps - they either whine about getting their small island lifestyle better subsidized (at the expense of main islanders primarily), ....or move to the main island. Very few would ever consider moving to the mainland just because to get there on occasion requires a main route ferry trip. There are very few really critical reasons to travel to the mainland anyway.

Edit to add: And most folk living on the main island wouldn't even consider visiting one of the small islands unless they had family, friends, or business reasons to do so, ....let alone actually moving to one of them LOL.

Nab

[sooperphreek]

build a bridge

[sooperphreek]

if we decided to build a bridge in the 40's or 50's we would have done it. and the fact that we live in an earthquake zone wouldnt have been as big of a consideration. i think that if there was the same mentality we have now los angeles and california wouldnt dwarf the population of our country. and even though they did have actual earthquakes there it wasnt like every single piece of infrastructure was affected. and when it was it was fixed. hopefully we dont continue to be such underachievers in this province and we look at the future and every solution.

[Glacier]

Admittedly I haven't read all 25 pages of posts in this thread so this may have been addressed previously but speaking of convenience, what about those Arrow Lakes (and all of the other inland freshwater) ferries?? How much do we pay to keep them running and why are they free??

That's a good question. I suspect it's because the inland ferries are relatively cheap to operate; half of them don't even need power to run. Also, most of the larger inland ferries fall under the Columbia Treaty and all that. ie. the people gave up their land for flooding, and the province provides ferry service across the resulting lakes.

[logicalview]

""The future of BC Ferries: tough decisions needed to stay financially afloat

In his report, (B.C. Ferry Commissioner Gord )Macatee agreed, arguing fares were at a “tipping point” and that future increases needed to be kept to the rate of inflation. Raising them more to cover rising costs and revenues lost because of falling ridership may lead to even higher losses.

That conclusion was drawn almost a year ago, before the latest increases, says Bill Cripps of Powell River, the chairman of the Ferry Advisory Committee for the north Sunshine Coast. “Now a full year later we’re at the tipping point plus four-per-cent more, which was added in April of this year.”

Cripps says the only way to increase ridership is to reduce fares by 25 per cent, rather than increasing them further.


http://www.vancouversun.com/news/future ... story.html

Fast forward 14 days.....

BC Ferries to hike fares 12% over three years

Read more: http://www.theprovince.com/business/Fer ... z285G4ouXI

lol. Two weeks ago BC Ferries were at "the tipping point".

Today. Well, today is "stick it to the ridership day".

When your losing money and you have a union involved, always, always, increase rates.

[sooperphreek]

i cant understand how the mismanagement of a business operation's failure can solely rest on the employees because they are unions. rising fuel prices, high management salaries, misdirected waste of resources, no real vision for the future, and many factors contribute to the overall mess. saying that it is the employees fault is is too elementary a conclusion. the problem with the trickle down mentality is that the prices have always gone up for less from the company.