ICBC and other provinces insurance rates

[John500]

Interesting reading material . Of course our BCLiberals transfer monies form ICBC to general revenue.

Canadians looking to save money on auto insurance should head to Quebec.

A new study finds that residents of la Belle Province pay the lowest premiums in the country, at an average of only $642 a year. While Ontarians, right on the other side of the Ottawa River, pay the highest premiums at $1,282 a year.

Co-author and Fraser Institute director Neil Mohindra says this is because of rampant fraud in Ontario.

"(It) comes as a result of higher claims costs per vehicle stemming from high levels of insurance fraud, and relatively severe regulations in rate-setting as well as mandatory minimum liability and accident benefit laws," he says in a statement.

The study conducted by the Fraser Institute, a right-leaning think tank, goes on to say that fraud investigators consider Toronto to be the centre of organized crime rings. Ontario announced reforms in November of 2009, but the study uses the most recent price information, also from 2009. The province's reforms are expected to lower premiums.

The study explains that Quebec consistently has the lowest premiums because it has a government-run provider that has a monopoly over selling basic coverage. They also have a no-fault system that prevents injured people from suing drivers at fault for pain and suffering.

However, the public provider in Quebec ran a deficit in 2009 of $2.6 billion and in some provinces taxpayers, including those who don't drive, subsidize government auto insurers to keep premiums lower.

Government intervention is not always the answer, however, as seen by high premiums in B.C., Saskatchewan and Manitoba, according to the report. These three provinces rank second through fourth on the list.

"These results are consistent with previous reports that suggest government-run auto insurance monopolies are less efficient than auto insurance provided by a regulated, competitive market," says Mohindra in a statement. "Drivers in B.C., Saskatchewan, and Manitoba should be asking why their governments have eliminated consumer choice and are forcing them to purchase auto insurance at rates higher than necessary."

Average auto insurance premiums by province
Ontario $1,281
British Columbia $1,113
Saskatchewan $1,049
Manitoba $1,027
Alberta $1,004
Newfoundland and Labrador $749
Nova Scotia $736
New Brunswick $728
Prince Edward Island $695
Quebec $642

[my5cents]

Interesting article, would have been nice to get the link.

Are we comparing the same number of accidents in each province and areas ? ie, we pay less for insurance in rural areas of BC than in Greater Vancouver and Greater Victoria.

What are the legislated minimum limits of coverage ? Are they the same in each province. ie, if Alberta requires each vehicle to hold at least $100,000 liability limit ? With a limit of $20,000 per claimant, per incident ?? or are all provinces the same ?

What is the no fault benefits contained in each policy and what is the limit per person ? Are they the same in every province ?

I would think that it is more likely that when someone has an accident in BC on it's winding mountain roads, vs a lot of Alberta and Saskatchewan that there are less injuries. Likely a lot of off road accidents in the prairies involve undercarriage damage and some damaged wheat.

I'm not saying the study is wrong, just that I'd like to see or be told that all were measured on a level playing field.

I know if I tell someone that houses are more expensive in Vancouver vs Regina, I would be comparing the same size, age and lot size.

[French Castanut]

I don't know what your article is talking about but here's how it works (I'm from QC I know what I'm talking about):

-In Quebec, you can SHOP your car insurance. The governement is not providing car insurance, but the private companies are.
-In Quebec, even if you do a NO LIABILITY claim, your premium rate will automatically go up, because you claimed.
-Personnaly, it costed me between 1200$ to 2500$ to get full car insurance PER YEAR, because I had 2 NO LIABLE claims in the past 5 months (bad luck hey). Now I'm up to 3 NO LIABLE claims in 8 months I don't want to know what it would cost me next year. Really bad luck. My truck did 2 cars write off and 10000$ repairs on my truck. Not liable have I said?
-An insurance company can't sue another insurance company. It's the law. They pay, that's it that's all.

The insurance the gouvernement is offering is:
-To pay a percentage of your wage, if you become temporarely or permanently disabled due to a car accident.
-They will give your family 50000$ if you die in a car accident
-They will refund medical expenses due to a car accident
That's it.
In addition, you can be a criminal and still make these claims to the SAAQ, because there's a NO FAULT Law in Quebec.
For example: You are drunk, you drive your car, you have an accident, and you can't work for the rest of your life.

Well, you're gonna receive lifetime benefits for the SAAQ to cover your earnings, even if you're a criminal.

This is how it works in Quebec.

[French Castanut]

doublepost.

[my5cents]

I don't know what your article is talking about but here's how it works (I'm from QC I know what I'm talking about):

-In Quebec, you can SHOP your car insurance. The governement is not providing car insurance, but the private companies are.
-In Quebec, even if you do a NO LIABILITY claim, your premium rate will automatically go up, because you claimed.
-Personnaly, it costed me between 1200$ to 2500$ to get full car insurance PER YEAR, because I had 2 NO LIABLE claims in the past 5 months (bad luck hey). Now I'm up to 3 NO LIABLE claims in 8 months I don't want to know what it would cost me next year. Really bad luck. My truck did 2 cars write off and 10000$ repairs on my truck. Not liable have I said?
-An insurance company can't sue another insurance company. It's the law. They pay, that's it that's all.

The insurance the gouvernement is offering is:
-To pay a percentage of your wage, if you become temporarely or permanently disabled due to a car accident.
-They will give your family 50000$ if you die in a car accident
-They will refund medical expenses due to a car accident
That's it.
In addition, you can be a criminal and still make these claims to the SAAQ, because there's a NO FAULT Law in Quebec.
For example: You are drunk, you drive your car, you have an accident, and you can't work for the rest of your life.

Well, you're gonna receive lifetime benefits for the SAAQ to cover your earnings, even if you're a criminal.

This is how it works in Quebec.

So I gather both the liability insurance and the own damage insurance are both just open to purchase from private insurance companies.

The difference in BC is that the minimum liability coverage you are required to have on your vehicle to drive it on the roads ($200,000) must be purchased from ICBC. All the rest, more liability insurance and own damage (theft, fire, collision, vandalism, etc) can be purchased from ICBC or from a private insurance company.

With the minimum coverage from ICBC you also get your no fault coverage, which covers you, your family and anyone in your car or anyone you hit with, medical, wage loss, rehab, long term disability and death benefits to a maximum of $600,000.
There are limits to each type of coverage. Death benefits are basically enough to dispose of a body
As with Quebec, if an impaired driver maims himself and becomes disabled or permanently disabled ICBC covers.

But, as you probably know, in BC if you are in a non-liable accident your insurance rates aren't effected.

[French Castanut]

@my5cent Right.

In Quebec, you can purchase 2 different kind of insurance.

For you: It means you're car is fully cover in case your at fault or not in a car accident.
For other (that's the minimum insurance you have to purchase by the law): It means if you're liable in a car accident, they don't cover your car but you're free of charge regarding the other party loss. But if someone else hit you, then your car is covered because it's not your fault. You can also choose to insure just one side of the car.

It's a huge difference because let's say you get involved in a car accident, in option 1 the ambulance, police, road cleaning, pound is 100% covered by your policy, as option 2 you would have to cover the full cost from your pocket.

There is no minimum amount to purchase, since each insurer pays only for its own insured but there's a "1million$ liability " that comes with the coverage.

What decides your rate is:
-Your driver's experience (how long you drive)
-Your gender (a guy will pay more than a girl)
-Car model / color/ year
-Your age (Under or above 25)
-Your claims history (Liable or not no matter what. They all count)
-Your optional options: Are your windows or accessories insured or not
-You can get a discount if your home / boat / something else is insured with the same company.

As for the body/human damage, it's covered by the SAAQ, which everyone has to pay with their driver's liscence. Here you can see the full list of what the SAAQ covers, no matter where you are in the world and who's at fault (if you have a QC DL):
http://www.saaq.qc.ca/en/accident_victi ... _table.php

The cost of the liscence is only 87$ a year if you have 0 demerit point (paying your liscence automatically gives you the SAAQ insurance):
http://www.saaq.qc.ca/en/accident_victi ... _table.php

As for the finances, in 2009 the SAAQ had profits of 253,835,000$ and in 2010, profits of 831,278,000$, lowering it's debt from 2.4G$ to 1.5G$. (See page 130):
http://www.saaq.gouv.qc.ca/publications ... on2010.pdf