Castanet

because they make all the stupid rules for everyone else so lets hold there minions feet to the fire i think thats the attitude

Totally agree. All employers should be allowed to do it. Why just government???????????????

But wait, why dont we just have everyone go to the hospital, take a drug test and while we are at it take DNA as well. Then we could put all of the data into a police data base for safe keeping.

Oh but wait a minute there is something out there called RIGHTS....cant do that.

I guess police and government employees aren't supposed to have any "rights".

Trunk-Monkey wrote:But wait, why dont we just have everyone go to the hospital, take a drug test and while we are at it take DNA as well. Then we could put all of the data into a police data base for safe keeping.

Oh but wait a minute there is something out there called RIGHTS....cant do that.

Its not so far fetched! If we use the IRP as precedent, they could enact a law requiring every person to have a drug test and their DNA taken and put on file. Obviously people would fight this as it is against the Charter Of Rights, but even if they won and it was found to be unconstitutional the government wouldn't have to give a remedy for people who lost their jobs or were charged with a crime found through their DNA!

Smurf wrote:I guess police and government employees aren't supposed to have any "rights".

And neither are people who haved been givin IRP's!!

And it would be a bad thing if they were as you say "caught for a crime".

Actually they haven't lost any rights. They have lost the priveledge to drive granted to them by the government "if" they follow the governments rules which by the way does include the "IRP'S".

can u see anyone showing up for those tests ? id let em throw me in jail first

Smurf wrote:Actually they haven't lost any rights. They have lost the priveledge to drive granted to them by the government "if" they follow the governments rules which by the way does include the "IRP'S".

What about the right to be presumed innocent until proven guilty?

Smurf wrote:And it would be a bad thing if they were as you say "caught for a crime".

Don't change my words please! I said Charged with a crime. Big difference no? For example my DNA could be at the seen of a crime, does this mean I am guilty of that crime?

jerome2877 wrote:

Trunk-Monkey wrote:But wait, why dont we just have everyone go to the hospital, take a drug test and while we are at it take DNA as well. Then we could put all of the data into a police data base for safe keeping.

Oh but wait a minute there is something out there called RIGHTS....cant do that.

Its not so far fetched! If we use the IRP as precedent, they could enact a law requiring every person to have a drug test and their DNA taken and put on file. Obviously people would fight this as it is against the Charter Of Rights, but even if they won and it was found to be unconstitutional the government wouldn't have to give a remedy for people who lost their jobs or were charged with a crime found through their DNA!

Stupid post of the day award.

jerome2877 wrote:What about the right to be presumed innocent until proven guilty?

jerome2877, you really don't understand the depths the government will, and have gone, to justify the IRP, and soon apparently, a new way of dealing with other Motor Vehicle Act "offences".

The way the government scripted the drinking and driving legislation was very carefully done. As a result the Supreme Court has ruled the driving with a BAC of 50 or over is NOT and OFFENCE under the Motor Vehicle Act of BC.

Yes, that's correct, it is NOT and OFFENCE. Yes, it's a play on words but after being caught for this "thing" that isn't an offence. Oh and by the way you are being stopped to further a CRIMINAL investigation. Your are given a demand to blow into an APPROVED SCREENING DEVICE (approved Under the Criminal Code), then when the device says "Warn" or "Fail", the cop has a revelation and decides to proceed under the Motor Vehicle Act, because he can nail you with over $4000 in "Costs" take away your vehicle, and be at the donut shop in 20 minutes. All without the worry of any scrutiny of a court, or being required to testify in open court under oath subject to cross examination.

And you ask, "What's the big deal about the word "offence" ?". Well the Charter says :

PROCEEDINGS IN CRIMINAL AND PENAL MATTERS.
11. Any person charged with an offence has the right
.................
(d) to be presumed innocent until proven guilty according to law in a fair and public hearing by an independent and impartial tribunal;

So, if the government writes the legislation in a certain way they figure they can skirt the intention of the Charter of Rights.

Clever eh ?

Oh, and your rights ? That's all mind over matter. The government and the police don't mind,,, and you and your rights don't matter.

If one’s head isn’t somewhere the sun doesn’t shine, it does open one’s eyes to one aspect. The government and the police do not give a hoot about the RIGHTS of citizens. It’s a case of US and THEM, and you buddy are one the of the “them’s”. It sucks to be you.

You see, the way the system is supposed to work, is that the police are an INDEPENDENT body that is charged with investigating crime. For whatever reason, you are suspected of a crime. IN THEORY, you are innocent until proven guilty and the police are there to investigate INDEPENDENTLY to get to the truth, be that that you are cleared of doing the crime or there is a “prima fascia” case against you and then they request that crown review their investigation and if there is enough evidence to indicate that there is a likelihood of a conviction, approve charges.

But a “pesky” little thing happens a lot of the time, Human Nature. The cop gets the idea “I just know XXX did this and I’m going to prove it, I’ll get the son of a ----------“. You are now not getting the benefit of an INDEPENDENT investigation. Your rights are a roadblock to this cop proving what he/she already knows. You have been found guilty in the cops mind and evidence to the contrary, is, because of human nature, given less weight.

The good news is that in a normal criminal matter there still exists the Crown Counsel’s, Charge Approval system as well as the court system, so even if the cop manages to push charges through against an innocent person, there is still a chance that your innocents will be determined.

Oh and when your true innocents is determined with a ruling of “Not Guilty” in court. The cop will say “You beat the charge”.

This is the same cop who is finding drinking driver’s guilty at the side of the roadway.

The government doesn’t or at least won’t, spend the money on well run courts, the Federal Government has seen the application of drinking and driving laws deteriorate because of case law and hasn’t fixed the laws. The police through under staffing and or mismanagement have lost the ability to reliably investigate criminal drinking and driving, which they either loose in court, in high numbers, or take so many hours to investigate that it becomes unworkable.

Solution, cook up new provincial laws that skirt the Charter of Rights, eliminate the scrutiny of courts and take only minutes to conclude. Win win for the government of BC and the police, and a loss of rights for BC citizens, but two out of three is pretty good, right,,, well unless you’re number three, I guess.

… and the next post or the one after, will address the same old STUPID, SHORT SIGHTED, rhetoric “Well what about the rights of innocent people, who are injured or killed by drunk drivers” ?

To them I say this. Just because someone feels that all citizens should have the right to be presumed innocent doesn’t mean they are in favor of law breakers going free. This is police/government propaganda, playing on the emotions and mob mentality of those who don’t have the intellect to realized how wrong this is.

Should we put someone suspected of sexual assault on a child in prison without a trial ? What about their victim’s rights ?

If the application of the IRP is so good, why stop at Motor Vehicle Act, offences,,, er sorry Motor Vehicle Act “stuff”. Lets organize lynch mobs and public floggings, for those suspected of even worse crimes.

The drug testing of police officers , Should be mandatory especially with the History the RCMP have With cocaine in their evidence lockers

Just in the last year or so There has been two very high-ranking RCMP officers One in merit and one on Vancouver Island Caught stealing cocaine and large amounts of money

And these are just the ones That have managed to make the papers.

Honestly this guy does not look like he would steal cocaine or money from an evidence locker would he