Impaired driving convictions spark B.C. lawsuits

[d_bengert]

.now the law says you can drink and drive up to a certain amount so if we're all gonna agree because its the law then your dangering statement is inacurate...and being someone who has worked in the alcohol business for years I can tell you with most certainty...the extreme majority of drinking drivers make it home just fine...so if I were to accept a balance of probabilities...which I don't...that would have to be included...which it shouldn't...sounds to me like I'm trying to come up with a solution that pleases everyone...while you are looking for a law that pleases you...it doesn't work that way

Your logic is, well, strange. So you're argument is that because most people who drink and drive were lucky enough to make it home OK, they are not really a danger so the penalty should not be harsh? And you're saying that you're trying to come up with a law that keeps everyone (and I assume you're meaning those that drink and drive vs everybody else) happy? Trust me, most British Columbians want the penalty for drinking and driving to be as harsh as possible. The only people that had a problem with this law are those that got caught and aren't man enough to admit they screwed up.

The bottom line is, any argument about how the dispute process works is irrelevant right now as there is none. Let the arguments begin once the new law is re-introduced.

No...I'm saying if we use the balance of probability rule then there shouldn't be a drinking and driving law because they will more than definitely probably get home safe. so lets throw the balance of probability out the window and keep the drinking and driving law. Drinking and Driving is the same as speeding...they both "can" kill...so the penalties should be similar...No? and as someone has pointed out already...if I screw up I should man up, admit it, and pay the penalty....ok... so why do you feel the govt. doesn't have to follow the same recourse...Goatboy listen...I want the same thing as you...I want my kids safe...and I will do anything to get it...and I don't believe people should drive drunk...but there has to be a system in place where people who have been wronged...or even think they were wronged can appeal...and in Canada this HAS TO be done in a court of law...where our rights as Canadians can be protected...that's all I ever wanted.

[zzontar]

The law made the cops judge and jury which made the dispute process unconstitutional. Whatever the case, there are still innocent people who have been wrongfully penalized who should get a retraction.

What makes you so sure they were innocent? Not getting a second test doesn't mean they weren't guilty.

Not saying everyone charged was innocent, but innocent until proven guilty with both sides being able to present all their evidence is the way to find out, not guilty until proven innocent without being able to prove your innocence. Cops should also know what factors will give an ASD a falsely high reading. The cop in the case I speak of didn't know breath spray gives a falsely high reading, KL3 didn't know, maybe none of them know, why this isn't in their training is beyond me.

[goatboy]

Not saying everyone charged was innocent, but innocent until proven guilty with both sides being able to present all their evidence is the way to find out, not guilty until proven innocent without being able to prove your innocence. Cops should also know what factors will give an ASD a falsely high reading. The cop in the case I speak of didn't know breath spray gives a falsely high reading, KL3 didn't know, maybe none of them know, why this isn't in their training is beyond me.

I must say that it is kinda funny that two people on these boards have had experiences of using breath spray right before being pulled over and failing an ASD test. Wonder what the chances of that happening are?

[KL3-Something]

The law made the cops judge and jury which made the dispute process unconstitutional. Whatever the case, there are still innocent people who have been wrongfully penalized who should get a retraction.

What makes you so sure they were innocent? Not getting a second test doesn't mean they weren't guilty.

Not saying everyone charged was innocent, but innocent until proven guilty with both sides being able to present all their evidence is the way to find out, not guilty until proven innocent without being able to prove your innocence. Cops should also know what factors will give an ASD a falsely high reading. The cop in the case I speak of didn't know breath spray gives a falsely high reading, KL3 didn't know, maybe none of them know, why this isn't in their training is beyond me.

Where did I say I didn't know?

I know full well that anything with an alcohol base whether it be mouthwash, breath spray or a nitro inhaler for angina sufferers can affect the ASD results by introducing mouth alcohol. An issue arises, however, when a driver sprays their mouth with breath spray as I am about to walk up to their window because they want to disguise the fact that they have been drinking. If they neglect to tell me what they have put into their mouth as they try to slip one past me when I ask them about their alcohol consumption.......well they made their own bed.

[zzontar]

I must say that it is kinda funny that two people on these boards have had experiences of using breath spray right before being pulled over and failing an ASD test. Wonder what the chances of that happening are?

Some people chew gum or use breath spray when leaving a restaurant, on the way to a date, after a cigarette... some people brush their teeth and gargle with mouthwash just before going out. Besides the job interview, there's a chance some of these people had a couple of drinks prior and would have blown just under the limit. Checkstops are usually always seconds away from someone's place, so I'd say the odds are actually pretty good relatively speaking.

[Captain Awesome]

Some people chew gum or use breath spray when leaving a restaurant, on the way to a date, after a cigarette... some people brush their teeth and gargle with mouthwash just before going out.

Yeah, all of these people start pounding the mouthwash just to have that minty fresh breath as the cop approaches them.

Lies are so transparent it`s not funny.

[zzontar]

Some people chew gum or use breath spray when leaving a restaurant, on the way to a date, after a cigarette... some people brush their teeth and gargle with mouthwash just before going out.

Yeah, all of these people start pounding the mouthwash just to have that minty fresh breath as the cop approaches them.

Lies are so transparent it`s not funny.

Ah, so you're another one who thinks using an alcohol-based mouthwash will hide the smell of alcohol. You know, even if you never had a drink but used mouthwash just before a checkstop, the cop would be suspicious because... get this... your breath would smell like alcohol! Wow, it's amazing I even have to explain this.

[Captain Awesome]

Ah, so you're another one who thinks using an alcohol-based mouthwash will hide the smell of alcohol.

Who said it`s supposed to hide it? Supposed to give an excuse to not so bright people - sorry officer, the reader is wrong, I'm not drunk, it must be all this mouthwash!

[zzontar]

The law made the cops judge and jury which made the dispute process unconstitutional. Whatever the case, there are still innocent people who have been wrongfully penalized who should get a retraction.

What makes you so sure they were innocent? Not getting a second test doesn't mean they weren't guilty.

Not saying everyone charged was innocent, but innocent until proven guilty with both sides being able to present all their evidence is the way to find out, not guilty until proven innocent without being able to prove your innocence. Cops should also know what factors will give an ASD a falsely high reading. The cop in the case I speak of didn't know breath spray gives a falsely high reading, KL3 didn't know, maybe none of them know, why this isn't in their training is beyond me.

Where did I say I didn't know?

I know full well that anything with an alcohol base whether it be mouthwash, breath spray or a nitro inhaler for angina sufferers can affect the ASD results by introducing mouth alcohol. An issue arises, however, when a driver sprays their mouth with breath spray as I am about to walk up to their window because they want to disguise the fact that they have been drinking. If they neglect to tell me what they have put into their mouth as they try to slip one past me when I ask them about their alcohol consumption.......well they made their own bed.

I gathered that from the other thread...

Cough syrup and mouthwash? yes, absolutely they contain alcohol. But roadside I don't care how you got the alcohol into your body, whether it was with whiskey, beer, wine or if you downed a bottle of Benalyn DM with an Aqua Velva chaser. Ethyl alcohol in your blood is ethyl alcohol in your blood.

Do you think if someone is drunk and they use an alcohol-based breath spray just before being pulled over that it would actually fool you? Do you think no one uses breath spray, mouthwash, or gum in the instances I mentioned, and don't you think most checkstops are indeed within a minute of someone's residence?

[goatboy]

Ah, so you're another one who thinks using an alcohol-based mouthwash will hide the smell of alcohol. You know, even if you never had a drink but used mouthwash just before a checkstop, the cop would be suspicious because... get this... your breath would smell like alcohol! Wow, it's amazing I even have to explain this.

So if it doesn't make your breath minty fresh, what's the point of using it? Oh wait, I know.................

[goatboy]

Do you think if someone is drunk and they use an alcohol-based breath spray just before being pulled over that it would actually fool you? Do you think no one uses breath spray, mouthwash, or gum in the instances I mentioned, and don't you think most checkstops are indeed within a minute of someone's residence?

I'll tell you what I do know, people will lie to try and get around the fact they're drunk drivers.

[zzontar]

Do you think if someone is drunk and they use an alcohol-based breath spray just before being pulled over that it would actually fool you? Do you think no one uses breath spray, mouthwash, or gum in the instances I mentioned, and don't you think most checkstops are indeed within a minute of someone's residence?

I'll tell you what I do know, people will lie to try and get around the fact they're drunk drivers.

Yes, I know that some people will do that, even though using anything alcohol-based is stupid unless you think a cop will disregard the smell of alcohol, which you obviously do, but what I also know is that:

Some people chew gum or use breath spray when leaving a restaurant, on the way to a date, after a cigarette... some people brush their teeth and gargle with mouthwash just before going out. Besides the job interview, there's a chance some of these people had a couple of drinks prior and would have blown just under the limit. Checkstops are usually always seconds away from someone's place, so I'd say the odds are actually pretty good relatively speaking.

I see there are guilty people who will try to get out of being charged, and that there are also innocent people who are wrongfully charged. You only seem to see one side of the coin... so it is.

[KL3-Something]

Cough syrup and mouthwash? yes, absolutely they contain alcohol. But roadside I don't care how you got the alcohol into your body, whether it was with whiskey, beer, wine or if you downed a bottle of Benalyn DM with an Aqua Velva chaser. Ethyl alcohol in your blood is ethyl alcohol in your blood.

Do you think if someone is drunk and they use an alcohol-based breath spray just before being pulled over that it would actually fool you? Do you think no one uses breath spray, mouthwash, or gum in the instances I mentioned, and don't you think most checkstops are indeed within a minute of someone's residence?

Maybe but I doubt it. Sure. Quite possibly.

In the above I was mentioning the ways in which alcohol gets into the blood through consumption. You are referring to mouth alcohol which relies entirely on the driver being honest and forthright with the officer about putting anything containing alcohol in their mouth in the last few minutes. I don't care if you were sipping on a beer as you were driving and hid it when you saw me. You might get a ticket for it but it is imperative that you tell me you were doing it because, yes, not telling me can result in a falsely high reading. But the onus is on the driver to provide that information.

If I have pulled you over and am taking the time to go through an ASD test then I have the time to wait the deprivation period if there is reason to believe that you have mouth alcohol.

[Wally]

Its really not that big of a deal to go through a road check, First of all, dont drink and drive, then say , Yes sir, No sir, Thank You sir, Have a good night sir, and carry on your way, This has worked for me a dozen times or so.

Whats mouthwash got to do with it? If you have to ask, its too late.

[zzontar]

Cough syrup and mouthwash? yes, absolutely they contain alcohol. But roadside I don't care how you got the alcohol into your body, whether it was with whiskey, beer, wine or if you downed a bottle of Benalyn DM with an Aqua Velva chaser. Ethyl alcohol in your blood is ethyl alcohol in your blood.

Do you think if someone is drunk and they use an alcohol-based breath spray just before being pulled over that it would actually fool you? Do you think no one uses breath spray, mouthwash, or gum in the instances I mentioned, and don't you think most checkstops are indeed within a minute of someone's residence?

Maybe but I doubt it. Sure. Quite possibly.

In the above I was mentioning the ways in which alcohol gets into the blood through consumption. You are referring to mouth alcohol which relies entirely on the driver being honest and forthright with the officer about putting anything containing alcohol in their mouth in the last few minutes. I don't care if you were sipping on a beer as you were driving and hid it when you saw me. You might get a ticket for it but it is imperative that you tell me you were doing it because, yes, not telling me can result in a falsely high reading. But the onus is on the driver to provide that information.

If I have pulled you over and am taking the time to go through an ASD test then I have the time to wait the deprivation period if there is reason to believe that you have mouth alcohol.

Hmmmmm, in the case I speak of, no waiting time was allowed, probably because the cop didn't know it affects the reading... or maybe it was because right after being pulled over, his buddy who had a checkstop across the street going the other way was packing up and took off... maybe it was the end of a shift, or coffee break, and he didn't want to wait, just wanted to nab one more person, who knows? Maybe you would have done the right thing, the cop in question most certainly didn't, nor did he just use good judgement... how can you justify pulling someone's license then letting them get in their car to move it unless you know they're not impaired?