More signs of things to come

[Retrosnap]

While everyone continues to bash the BCTF (and with good reason) few people have touched health care workers so far.

You've probably seen the HEU commercials calling for a "fair and reasonable" wage settlement.

Anaesthesiologists have threatened to withdraw from elective surgeries on April 1st if their demands for more hiring and higher compensation are not met.

And now this from the BCNU...the bolding is mine

https://new.bcnu.org/News/News.aspx?page=Bulletins_March%2014_1,%202012

Contrary to some news media reports, BCNU has not put a wage proposal on the bargaining table or addressed wages in any way at this point in provincial bargaining.

That’s because we want health employers and the government to focus on members’ top priority – measures to deal with workload, patient safety and understaffing.

Making gains on safe staffing will be challenging and expensive for health employers and the government and will require considerable public support. It’s unlikely our drive for more nurses to ensure safe patient care can be accommodated within the government’s “net zero” or “co-operative gains” bargaining frameworks.

We have not accepted the government’s net zero mandate.

Christy Clark is going to have her hands full...and sooner or later Adrian Dix is going to have to take a stand.

Interesting times, indeed.

[twaddle]

Unfortunately when it comes to "meaningful" negotiations with the unions in BC, Christy Clark takes a page from the Gordon Campbell methods. The way things are setting up, we are going backwards when it comes to the things that really matter to the people who elected them in the first place. Continue with the way that our government is negotiating with nurses and teachers and we will end up with problems that cannot be fixed. A real nice legacy to leave our children.

[LoneWolf_53]

While everyone continues to bash the BCTF (and with good reason) few people have touched health care workers so far.

That would be because, so far the others haven't done anything that demands chastizing them for. They are silently sitting back, watching how the BCTF issue plays out.

[The Green Barbarian]

Unfortunately when it comes to "meaningful" negotiations with the unions in BC, Christy Clark takes a page from the Gordon Campbell methods. The way things are setting up, we are going backwards when it comes to the things that really matter to the people who elected them in the first place. Continue with the way that our government is negotiating with nurses and teachers and we will end up with problems that cannot be fixed. A real nice legacy to leave our children.

perhaps you should send this message to Susan Lambert, head Red at the BCTF. She's the one to blame just as much, or more, for the "legacy" you speak of.

[Retrosnap]

That would be because, so far the others haven't done anything that demands chastizing them for. They are silently sitting back, watching how the BCTF issue plays out.

I would say that they simply aren't as belligerent and stupid as the BCTF. In the posted article, they say that they do not accept Net Zero, and they fully admit that what they want will be "challenging and expensive". When the the gov't says "net zero" and the the BCNU says "We don't accept that, and our solution will be expensive" that has to raise red flags. As a side note, in early 2009 the BCNU negotiated an early contract extension, just as world economy tanked. While most every other public sector union accepted net zero for 2010/2011, the BCNU had already locked in a wage increase....oops...sorry 3% per year "market adjustment"

In another post, I mentioned that nursing postings are already going unfilled...what else is there to do to entice workers, but to raise their pay? The last market adjustments clearly didn't work.

If I'm wrong, I'll go on record and say so, but it should come as no surprise when the BCNU tables a wage demand.

[The Green Barbarian]

I would say that they simply aren't as belligerent and stupid as the BCTF. .

[Jordan123]

Just raise taxes already! I would pay an extra $100 year for better pay for teachers/health workers, better infrastructure, more govt programs etc. Well worth it.

I'm in favor of a "above the board" straightforward income tax hike. Not backhanded HST stylings. If the HST was implemented in the correct way, I probably would have been in favor of that too.

[Veovis]

I think a lot of negotiations are going to be dragged out to see the final resolution with the BCTF. At the least what gets tabled will (unless their all daft) be increases but not huge percentages with extra 2 weeks of "friend death" vacation built in.

Keep in mind the BCTF has set a bar that allows other unions to come in, ask for something small and look like saints, and if your public image is good your public support usually is as well.

Also, some of the other unions have already for a number of years done net-zero contracts and feel that this time around they deserve at least something. Now if you had gone net-zero for the last 4 years while others didn't, I can see them having a valid argument. However the second they walk in with 1 stupid demand, I think they have lost their chance.


Jordan123 - you'd have to pony up 1000-2000 a year at least to hope to make a dent in getting anything better. And you actually wouldn't get any "better" the existing would simply get more.

[The Green Barbarian]

Just raise taxes already! I would pay an extra $100 year for better pay for teachers/health workers, better infrastructure, more govt programs etc. Well worth it.
.

Yes - well if that's where the hike in taxes would actually go to, you probably would find some takers (though you'd have a tough sell on the "better pay for teachers" comment given I'm sure most feel their pay is already "better" than what they are making).

This bigger issue is your strategem of appeasement you are demonstrating here. Too many of our weak-kneed politicians of our past followed this plan, and whenever anybody whined, they simply "raised taxes" or "increased spending" - this was much easier than growing a spine, and saying that dreadful word that all politicians fear: "No". Hence we have the issues we have today, with unions demanding more and more, and then crying and whining when they don't get it. This has always worked in the past, and people have fallen for it in the past, just saying "ok let's just pay more tax so they'll shut up". Sorry Jordan, but those days are over - let's hope forever. It's time to pay the piper, and the unions have to share in this responsibility. The days of ever-increasing wages and benefits to public sector workers is over. If you want to pay them more - then by all means, send off extra cheques to the government, I'm sure they'll happily accept them. Count me out.

[twobits]

Just raise taxes already! I would pay an extra $100 year for better pay for teachers/health workers, better infrastructure, more govt programs etc. Well worth it.

Do you think a box of Cracker Jacks is still 10 cents? Hundred bucks a year off of every full time paycheque in the province would only meet 10% of the current BCTF demands. Nothing else. So please tell me just how much of your paycheque you are willing to fork over to public sector unions before you start to demand some spending control instead?

[Veovis]

I'll fork over all of their paycheque. Just leave mine alone.

[rookie314]

I think a lot of negotiations are going to be dragged out to see the final resolution with the BCTF. At the least what gets tabled will (unless their all daft) be increases but not huge percentages with extra 2 weeks of "friend death" vacation built in.

Keep in mind the BCTF has set a bar that allows other unions to come in, ask for something small and look like saints, and if your public image is good your public support usually is as well.

Also, some of the other unions have already for a number of years done net-zero contracts and feel that this time around they deserve at least something. Now if you had gone net-zero for the last 4 years while others didn't, I can see them having a valid argument. However the second they walk in with 1 stupid demand, I think they have lost their chance.


Jordan123 - you'd have to pony up 1000-2000 a year at least to hope to make a dent in getting anything better. And you actually wouldn't get any "better" the existing would simply get more.

The teachers haven't had a raise in over 3 years. They are hardly setting the bar. In fact they are proving that if you want fair and equitable treatment go teach somewhere else. Nice isn't it, drive teachers out of the province, nurses next and then followed by who. This province is on the road to destruction. It is one of the richest provinces in the country and due to inept government is BROKE. So go ahead blame it on the teachers, nurses, whoever just don't look at, as the Government is quick to point out the FACTS such as, in 2007 the MLA's gave themselves a 27% wage increase and increased the premiers wage by 54%, so its the teachers fault.

[LoneWolf_53]

So go ahead blame it on the teachers, nurses, whoever just don't look at, as the Government is quick to point out the FACTS such as, in 2007 the MLA's gave themselves a 27% wage increase and increased the premiers wage by 54%, so its the teachers fault.

I found it quite enlightening, to learn that BCTF leaders make virtually the same money as MLA's, since you brought them up.

To my thinking, such generosity toward a pack of militants, is far more likely to lead down the path of destruction.

[John500]

Its easy to say 0-0-0 while having received a nice fat raise. And instead of all the government ads on tv, radio and newspapers trying to tell us how well they do, why not use that money and settle things. One may state that the teachers are wrong with asking 15% over the next number of years. There is a whole lot more going on with the education system then what we hear about and the teachers are certainly making some good points as to the system, including a court case that the government totally ignores. So dont get focussed just on that 15%. And Lone Wolf, how many MLA's have Degrees and Masters?

[LoneWolf_53]

And Lone Wolf, how many MLA's have Degrees and Masters?

Who cares? You're just feeding into the whole entitlement thing again. There's no shortage of people, who far outrank any teacher, in position and income, that don't have Masters Degrees. Many so talented that they get them honorarily at some point or other. Don't think Bill Gates got a Masters, yet he's one of the richest people on the planet.

To my thinking, someone put in a position to run a whole province, is deserving of compensation and regard reflecting that, and beyond that of someone looking after a classroom of 30 kids. Granted some are next to useless, but hey, voters put them there, and that's how our democracy works. They also get turfed without a second thought so job security is zero. Oddly enough the figures show that Lambert rivals such persons, and many teachers are not too far behind, with all of them far more secure in their jobs than an MLA, so again, it's not as though they are hard done by.

If you think an average teacher salary of over 70K for the district we are in is insufficient, I for one fully support you sending them a check to top it up to whatever level you wish.

I on the other hand taught myself to live on less, and within my means, so feel no such obligation whatsoever.