Just said NO to 'Smrt' Meters

[twobits]

As for commercial/industrial peaks.... (although both Fortis and BC Hydro have their existing and proposed commercial rate structures on line so one can see the differences in treatment against residential), ...while I have no solid data to offer one way or the other, It seems to me a difficult case to make that commercial / industrial operates mainly on a 5 day week. Operating 7 days a week (and with hours well into the evening) is very common practice now, ...and in the case of industrial trying to get three full shifts operating 24/7 is not at all unusual.

Nab

But then doesn't weekends being entirely off peak seem rather curious? Why is on peak only Mon - Fri? As I said earlier, if anything we (residential) will be consuming more on weekends when we are more likely to be home. And I suspect as well, that our meal times would be relatively the same but no on peak. Why?

[OnTheRoadAgain]

I confess to not having really followed this topic. It's certainly been talked about enough so now I am faced with sounding like an idiot by asking, does BC Hydro have to have your permission to install the meter or, in the case of the OP was it merely coincidence that he was there when the guy came on to his property?

Also, if they don't need permission and they can install them at will, what would I look for?

My understanding is that had we not been standing in the yard when he arrived, we would have come home to a smart meter installed.
So, they can install them at will as far as I know but if you tell them not to, by word or signage, they are to respect that.

[OnTheRoadAgain]

Generally speaking ledzep, BC Hydro will send out an advise letter by mail a few weeks in advance of the installations in an area, but they obviously cannot make appointments or schedule yours at a time convenient to you. They will usually knock on your door to talk with you briefly before they do the install, but if no one is home they will change the meter and leave a notice on your door. Your power will be off briefly as they do so.

If one has strong feelings about disallowing them to make the change, I guess it would be most sensible to officially contact them in advance rather than just wait for them to show up then try to trap the installer.

Nab

We did not receive any notice of their plan to visit our property and install a smart meter.

[NAB]

As for commercial/industrial peaks.... (although both Fortis and BC Hydro have their existing and proposed commercial rate structures on line so one can see the differences in treatment against residential), ...while I have no solid data to offer one way or the other, It seems to me a difficult case to make that commercial / industrial operates mainly on a 5 day week. Operating 7 days a week (and with hours well into the evening) is very common practice now, ...and in the case of industrial trying to get three full shifts operating 24/7 is not at all unusual.
Nab

But then doesn't weekends being entirely off peak seem rather curious? Why is on peak only Mon - Fri? As I said earlier, if anything we (residential) will be consuming more on weekends when we are more likely to be home. And I suspect as well, that our meal times would be relatively the same but no on peak. Why?

This may give you some insight in the matter Twobits..

http://internet.regie-energie.qc.ca/Dep ... _12_16.pdf

Nab

[Dash5]

I think Fortis is gas, Hydro electricity.

Depends where you live. On the westside (and most of the rest of BC for that matter) yes, Fortis is Gas, BC Hydro is electricity. In Kelowna (and much of the southern interior) Fortis is gas and electricity.

[DeepEnd]

Two month billing period
Profile:
Two people, standard apartment/condo, always cook at home, no cable or tv, nothing charging. Two laptops, one tower.

Hot water heating included in rent.

Our owner has opted out of the program, even changed the locks on the electrical room. They let the reader in when needed.

I'll try and post any change if it happpens.

I.m just wondering what amounts we're talking about.

Most of our bill is above and beyond what we use.

$9.19 for just being hooked up to the wire without usage. And that taxable too. Because that's a service. Thank-you, may I have my electricity now?

edited to add pic.

[NAB]

Do you get an electric bill from BC Hydro or Fortis DeepEnd? Presumably if you do you have your own meter and your home is separately metered as to your own consumption? And if you get a bill from them what does it say?

Nab

[DeepEnd]

Sorry, pic didn't stick. Wonder where I sent it?

[DeepEnd]

Do you get an electric bill from BC Hydro or Fortis DeepEnd? Presumably if you do you have your own meter and your home is separately metered as to your own consumption? And if you get a bill from them what does it say?

Nab

One meter room, separate meters.

[NAB]

Thanks. I thought your image might have explained it but it said it wasn't available when I clicked on it.

Looks like a BC Hydro bill reflecting the rate increase they implemented April 1st. Your consumption is very low. Typically a thousand square feet of residence excluding heat (and air conditioning?) but including laundry and dishwasher and hot water would be in the order of three times that for two people. Neat isn't it that your bill add ons (rate rider, transit levy, taxes) cost as much as your electricity itself did for that period.

Interesting however that your landlord decided s(he) should have the right to decide whether his/her tenants would get their smartmeter or not (not that a smartmeter would do you much good anyway ;-) )

Edit to add: Incidentally, in that your bill reflects a "transit levy", I will assume you live either in the lower mainland or Victoria region. It's really just another sneaky tax grab under another name, collected by BC Hydro - on behalf of TransLink in the lower mainland GVRD for example.

Edit to add: Neat too that it effectively wipes out your BC HST Tax Credit, plus adds more tax to boot. Creative book keeping at its best considering where BC Hydro's "profits" end up LOL.

Nab

[twobits]

Depends where you live. On the westside (and most of the rest of BC for that matter) yes, Fortis is Gas, BC Hydro is electricity. In Kelowna (and much of the southern interior) Fortis is gas and electricity.

Fortis. the electrical branch, is the area that once apon a time was West Kootenay Power. It was sold to Utilicorp who subsequently sold to Fortis or changed their name to Fortis......can't remember which.

[twobits]

This may give you some insight in the matter Twobits..

http://internet.regie-energie.qc.ca/Dep ... _12_16.pdf

Nab

Actually it didn't provide any insight at all. If anything it confirms by admission that weekends still pose peak demand problems with weather events and it gives no rational for excluding weekends that I could see. I am still suspicious that residential rates are subsidizing commercial activity which are the main drivers of peak demands even without weather events.

[NAB]

Actually it didn't provide any insight at all. If anything it confirms by admission that weekends still pose peak demand problems with weather events and it gives no rational for excluding weekends that I could see. I am still suspicious that residential rates are subsidizing commercial activity which are the main drivers of peak demands even without weather events.

As I understand it, that is but one of many submissions and pilot programs designed to try to come up with a workable TOU rate structure for the various BC Hydro regions. Somewhere in one of them (perhaps even the one I provided the link for) there was a comment related to designing it in such a way that it produced the lowest possible level of backlash from residential customers. It could well be weekends/holidays being excluded is nothing more than a marketing and political issue rather than a practical one. But as I suggested previously, I don't disagree with you that at the end of the day revenue streams from residential will subsidize keeping rates as low as possible for the commercial/undustrial sectors - that happens on many fronts, not just utilities, ...property taxation for example.

Nab

[DeepEnd]

Interesting however that your landlord decided s(he) should have the right to decide whether his/her tenants would get their smartmeter or not (not that a smartmeter would do you much good anyway ;-) )

Edit to add: Incidentally, in that your bill reflects a "transit levy", I will assume you live either in the lower mainland or Victoria region. It's really just another sneaky tax grab under another name, collected by BC Hydro - on behalf of TransLink in the lower mainland GVRD for example.

Edit to add: Neat too that it effectively wipes out your BC HST Tax Credit, plus adds more tax to boot. Creative book keeping at its best considering where BC Hydro's "profits" end up LOL.

Nab

Thanks for noticing the add-ons and such. Yes, this bill is for our place in the gvrd. Many might not notice some of these figures at the higher end of the usage scale.

Our owners, a nice, older couple don't take kindly to change when they get very little say in the matter or you can say no and pay more for that right.

We always try to be very conscious of what we want and use. In the past we heated rooms to hold books and hobbies. Now we have 150 books on a shelf and a 2 laptops. We do most of the things We did Before (with house) just differently and After (no house) we watch what we bring into our home. Digital photo frames waste so much power just sitting there turned off but plugged in to the wall. We at one time had a half a dozen of them. Sure did look pretty when lit up altogether.

In the past you could accumulate lots of stuff and it didn't really cost you much to keep it. Today people (ourselves included) have so much stuff being stored and heated and they don't even know what it all is.

Are people sore that Smart meters won't allow them to accumulate more stuff for no cost later? Dang right they are. How will anybody notice how much stuff I have if I can't throw it in storage and get the newest stuff.

[OnTheRoadAgain]

Depends where you live. On the westside (and most of the rest of BC for that matter) yes, Fortis is Gas, BC Hydro is electricity. In Kelowna (and much of the southern interior) Fortis is gas and electricity.

Ok that makes more sense. Thank you.