Monday, September 1st19.6°C
22817
22701

Just said NO to 'Smrt' Meters

B.C. topics.

Moderators: oneh2obabe, Triple 6, Jo, ferri

Re: Just said NO to 'Smrt' Meters

Postby NAB » Sep 12th, 2012, 7:55 am

past 4 and half months. Do I assume that is the time since your smart meter was installed?

With respect to power theft, I'll give you a real example.....

City lots... Property A ran an underground circuit (using only plain extension cords) approximately 100 feet to run a fountain pump and some flood lights. The cord terminated in an four standard outlet box of which 3 of the outlets were in use. Neighbour next door at property B became aware of it and somewhere along the line plugged his own extension cord into the unused outlet, carefully shallow buried and hid the cord along the bottom of the fence line into his own home, and hung a 120 volt radiant tower heater on the end of it. (Those things use massive amount of power and in this case was running constantly). Other than property A complaining about huge electric bills, nothing happened until the property sold (even the pre-sale inspector didn't notice). And even the new owner was none the wiser for several months (summer). But when the weather cooled in the fall and he got his first bill covering some heating season he just about died of the unexpected shock! By then of course some 8 months had gone by since they moved in, and he had even been running two 120V radiant heaters himself to supplement the baseboards. 5000 to 7000 Kwh's per billing period that winter for two people and a 1500 square foot single level conventional home with no airconditioning, hot tubs, outbuildings, pool, or anything but the basics! And that's in our mild south Island winter!

First thing they did was suspect a faulty meter and went through similar frustrations to what you have experienced. But it turned out to be a combination of their lifestyle, some technical and design faults with their baseboard heating system and some other circuits, poor furniture layout (blocking baseboard heaters), ...and some theft.

Edit to add: Just for comparison, that little home was going through power eqivalent to another home on baseboard heat but twice the size (two stories), four people living in it, (two teenagers), and a full blown outdoor hot tub getting regular use!

Nab
NAB
Buddha of the Board
 
Posts: 22985
Likes: 38 posts
Liked in: 206 posts
Joined: Apr 19th, 2006, 1:33 pm

Re: Just said NO to 'Smrt' Meters

Postby Charlie01 » Sep 12th, 2012, 10:53 am

Yes - 4 1/2 months give or take - smart meter was installed April 25th.

While it's kind of funny, in a sad and pathetic way, what lengths some people will go to in order to scam a little from somebody else, there's nothing around here available for anybody to do anything like that. There used to be an outdoor outlet on the side of the barn I can't readily see from the house, but that was removed along with it's wiring a number of years ago and had no impact on the problem which existed before and since.

The meter was actually the last thing I suspected. In 2002 when I complained, I was told to hire an electrician to test my system if I wasn't bright enough to figure out what to shut off. (Hydro's words) So, I actually did just that. He was the first person who zeroed in on the meter as there was nothing to find on my side of the meter base. He had concerns for the age of the meter and issues with it's function characteristics and filed a report exactly to that effect. Hydro appears to have ignored that report. That was one of the times that I got the lecture that meters always slow down when they malfunction - never speed up or fail to return to correct rotation rate following a high load. I spoke with a couple of manufacturers of analog meters and learned a bit about expected reliable lifespan and what part is most likely to fail on meters exposed to dusty conditions, vibration or extremes of environment - like what might be found on a south facing wall of a barn.

Frankly, when a person reviews a really long term, continuous history of the usage here, it would make one think that there were times that the meter maybe saw some maintenance. I know meters are supposed to be pulled, an identified replacement put in temporarily and the original bench tested and recalibrated in a controlled setting. There is absolutely nothing on any of the bills I have that shows a replacement meter being in service for any length of time. However, Hydro does advise they are approved to do their own recalibration. Certainly in light of the many complaints and the couple of electricians reports generated from this property, along with a review of usage records, Hydro had to know the meter was suspect. My gut is that a man in the field was doing recalibration to some standard on site. That's about all that's left to explain why consumption would go along within a normal, expected range for anywhere from 6 to 18 months, then gradually begin increasing, maybe only by 300 or 400 kW.h one cycle, a few hundred more the next (and even sometimes in spring/summer when it should be decreasing) and gradually climb its way up to ridiculous. Complaints made, then by the next full billing cycle or so, would inexplicitly be back to a "normal" range with no change of any use or habit on our part.

Granted the meter was finally replaced in late April, late in a billing cycle during a time of year that the weather is warming and days are getting longer, but the drop in average daily consumption between the two meters went from 80.4 kW.h to 35.5 kW.h with the mean temperture for May less than 3 degrees warmer than April was.

Your comments about powering the 1500 sq. ft. 2 occupant, no frills house in comparison to the much larger one. We're about 800 sq. ft., I've got my son pretty savvy in regard to energy conservation and how I do my little farm might lead some to believe we're Amish. Sure because of the outdoor stuff, which is quite minimal, my bills should run a little higher than the same home in town, but mine were running as high as 7500 to 8000 kW.h in Novemebr to January and January to March, while the occassional other year might be as low as 1160 to 3000 for the same time periods with electric heat as well. Literally all over the map and broad enough year over year swings that Hydro couldn't have missed it.............if they were bright enough.
Charlie01
 
Posts: 75
Likes: 0 post
Liked in: 0 post
Joined: Jul 11th, 2011, 7:03 pm

Re: Just said NO to 'Smrt' Meters

Postby NAB » Sep 12th, 2012, 4:34 pm

Charlie, what where your beginning and end dates for your last billing cycle, and how many Kwh's in total did you consume?

What were the numbers for the same period last year?

....and I will assume no space heating, air conditioning, or other unusual usage in either case?...

Nab
NAB
Buddha of the Board
 
Posts: 22985
Likes: 38 posts
Liked in: 206 posts
Joined: Apr 19th, 2006, 1:33 pm

Re: Just said NO to 'Smrt' Meters

Postby Charlie01 » Sep 12th, 2012, 4:51 pm

Yes, assume everything the same from one year to the next, except age and wrinkles..........but yes, that's right about heat, no air and such.

May 16 to July 17 2012 - 1681 kW.h
May 18 to July 18 2011 - 3111 kW.h

July 18 to I'm guessing Sept 18 2012 should be right around 1640 kW.h give or take (currently 1480)
July 19 to Sept 16 2011 - 3131 kW.h

You know? I fibbed. I have had the breaker for the heaters on for almost 2 weeks now and have had the heat on at night 5 or 6 times this year. Last year it was only the 3rd and 4th of Septemeber, then off until late in the month.
Charlie01
 
Posts: 75
Likes: 0 post
Liked in: 0 post
Joined: Jul 11th, 2011, 7:03 pm

Re: Just said NO to 'Smrt' Meters

Postby NAB » Sep 12th, 2012, 5:07 pm

OK, thanks. Can you do the same for me on the two billing periods on either side of those dates for both years?

And just an observation, but considering your description of your circumstances and operation, that usage is unusually high, even for the most recent period. Last year of course incredibly so. Can you think of anything at all that is different now than it was then, either in your personal situation or the neighbourhood in general? (Edit - other than the meter swap in April of course ;-) )

Also, what region of the province do you live in vs vs BC Hydro?

Nab
NAB
Buddha of the Board
 
Posts: 22985
Likes: 38 posts
Liked in: 206 posts
Joined: Apr 19th, 2006, 1:33 pm

Re: Just said NO to 'Smrt' Meters

Postby NAB » Sep 12th, 2012, 5:26 pm

BTW, no rush but in that you said you have been taking daily readings (presumably at the same time every day) I would like to create a graphed profile from that data. Date and corresponding daily meter reading back to when you started taking daily readings would suffice.

Nab
NAB
Buddha of the Board
 
Posts: 22985
Likes: 38 posts
Liked in: 206 posts
Joined: Apr 19th, 2006, 1:33 pm

Re: Just said NO to 'Smrt' Meters

Postby Charlie01 » Sep 12th, 2012, 5:44 pm

Yeah, within an hour or so one way or other each morning. I've got it in a spreadsheet format, not a graph. It's a good sized file by now.

I don't have a good graphing program. I did do a hand drawn graph of about 13 year's history using bi-monthly information. Looked kind of like a normal person developing heart trouble, having a series of serious heart attacks, flatlining then coming back to life with a real wild heart rate there after, then suddenly getting well..........for no reason.
Charlie01
 
Posts: 75
Likes: 0 post
Liked in: 0 post
Joined: Jul 11th, 2011, 7:03 pm

Re: Just said NO to 'Smrt' Meters

Postby Charlie01 » Sep 12th, 2012, 5:46 pm

Nuts. That other billing cycle info you asked about - I posted it and didn't do something right because it's not here.

Okay, trying again. Nope, nada, nothing different this year to last except we were home more. Not as on the go with sports. May and June were cooler this year than usual and with us being here more, some use would be higher. Can't provide numbers for the next billing cycle for this year of coarse as it hasn't happened yet, however, the ones previous for this year:

March 16 to May 15 2012 - 3748 kW.h (part of this includes the big drop in daily average usage once the meter was swapped)
(get this) Jan. 18 to March 15 2012 - 7347 kw.h

March 19 to May 17 2011 - 4346 kW.h
Sept 17 to Nov 17 2011 - 4735 kW.h

I'm in Shuswap, just out of North Ok
Last edited by Charlie01 on Sep 12th, 2012, 5:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Charlie01
 
Posts: 75
Likes: 0 post
Liked in: 0 post
Joined: Jul 11th, 2011, 7:03 pm

Re: Just said NO to 'Smrt' Meters

Postby NAB » Sep 12th, 2012, 5:49 pm

Bi monthly information isn't particularly helpful, but daily information could be. What spreadsheet format do you have the information for your daily readings in?

Nab
NAB
Buddha of the Board
 
Posts: 22985
Likes: 38 posts
Liked in: 206 posts
Joined: Apr 19th, 2006, 1:33 pm

Re: Just said NO to 'Smrt' Meters

Postby Charlie01 » Sep 12th, 2012, 6:04 pm

It's a Works program .xlr file extension. Office programs will open it.
Charlie01
 
Posts: 75
Likes: 0 post
Liked in: 0 post
Joined: Jul 11th, 2011, 7:03 pm

Re: Just said NO to 'Smrt' Meters

Postby NAB » Sep 12th, 2012, 6:18 pm

Does your works program offer any possibilities to save it in any other formats? I have MS Excel so not sure that it can deal with an old xlr format.

Nab
NAB
Buddha of the Board
 
Posts: 22985
Likes: 38 posts
Liked in: 206 posts
Joined: Apr 19th, 2006, 1:33 pm

Re: Just said NO to 'Smrt' Meters

Postby NAB » Sep 12th, 2012, 6:22 pm

Charlie01 wrote:Nuts. That other billing cycle info you asked about - I posted it and didn't do something right because it's not here.

Okay, trying again. Nope, nada, nothing different this year to last except we were home more. Not as on the go with sports. May and June were cooler this year than usual and with us being here more, some use would be higher. Can't provide numbers for the next billing cycle for this year of coarse as it hasn't happened yet, however, the ones previous for this year:

March 16 to May 15 2012 - 3748 kW.h (part of this includes the big drop in daily average usage once the meter was swapped)
(get this) Jan. 18 to March 15 2012 - 7347 kw.h

March 19 to May 17 2011 - 4346 kW.h
Sept 17 to Nov 17 2011 - 4735 kW.h

I'm in Shuswap, just out of North Ok


Those are incredibly high numbers for the situation you describe here.

Nab
NAB
Buddha of the Board
 
Posts: 22985
Likes: 38 posts
Liked in: 206 posts
Joined: Apr 19th, 2006, 1:33 pm

Re: Just said NO to 'Smrt' Meters

Postby Charlie01 » Sep 12th, 2012, 6:33 pm

Yup. That's about how I see it too. And you have no idea how maddening it is when no matter what you do to cut back, the next one is higher. I would say I've developed a bit of animosity towards Hydro when they are hounding and make threats unless I pay up and I'm telling them things can't be right but they tell me everything looks completely normal. This letter their regulatory group lady sent is just a scream, really. Time and again she writes some remarkable things.
Charlie01
 
Posts: 75
Likes: 0 post
Liked in: 0 post
Joined: Jul 11th, 2011, 7:03 pm

Re: Just said NO to 'Smrt' Meters

Postby NAB » Sep 12th, 2012, 6:46 pm

Better to deal directly with the guys and gals in the trucks, ...the "boots on the ground". They know the real facts. Dealing with the HO "service" people is generally a huge and frustrating waste of time and energy, no matter what the organization.

But I really need to see those daily meter reading numbers.

Oh, and by the way, does the meter readings they have taken and shown and dated on your bills closely resemble those you have taken on the same date yourself? Watch closely for that.

Nab
NAB
Buddha of the Board
 
Posts: 22985
Likes: 38 posts
Liked in: 206 posts
Joined: Apr 19th, 2006, 1:33 pm

Re: Just said NO to 'Smrt' Meters

Postby Charlie01 » Sep 12th, 2012, 7:26 pm

Yes, the meter readings as obtained by the meter guy are correct. That's easy to tell with a smart meter.

No problem sending that file to you. I don't think I have anything on my end to change the file type to, that will hold the format. You might be able to open it as is on your end with your MS Excel or you might need to download a file viewer off the web.
Charlie01
 
Posts: 75
Likes: 0 post
Liked in: 0 post
Joined: Jul 11th, 2011, 7:03 pm

PreviousNext

Return to British Columbia

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: my5cents and 4 guests