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Liberal Party.

Discuss the upcoming provincial election. Keep it civil in here, people. It's not the Political Arena.

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Re: Liberal Party.

Postby Corneliousrooster » Oct 28th, 2012, 8:33 am

I don't think the liberals are even trying to put up a fight this election, Theyu don't even have a brain cell between the whole lot of them.


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Re: Liberal Party.

Postby keith1612 » Oct 28th, 2012, 9:54 am

Corneliousrooster wrote:I don't think the liberals are even trying to put up a fight this election, Theyu don't even have a brain cell between the whole lot of them.


http://www.castanet.net/news/BC/82472/B ... -tax-stays


its very open and obvious, when Christy says families first she isnt lying.
she just means her family.
she only cares about CEO's and MLA's and their bonuses and pensions.
why should MLA's care about the carbon tax, it doesnt effect them.
they get free gas, house allowances and govt credit cards.
this election cant come fast enough to see these idiots chased out in shame.
wonder if Harper will give Christy a nice cushy overseas job for her help in the HST fiasco.
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Re: Liberal Party.

Postby mott.hoople » Oct 28th, 2012, 8:44 pm

The Election can not happen fast enough! At the rate they are spending our money I will be 157 years old by the time its all paid off.
These high thread count sheets feel amazing on my naked skin. Oh Oh... Here comes the Zellers manager. I wonder what she wants?
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Re: Liberal Party.

Postby John500 » Oct 28th, 2012, 10:26 pm

If the Lieberals were clever they should concentrate on loosing the next May election. Have the NDP try too clean up the mess. Then regroup while in opposition and see where they stand during the election following. Chances are tho that the NDP may even do a good job and get re-elected. I just dont understand, are these Lieberals walking around blindfolded and with earplugs in their ears? Guess its called LALALand they are in.
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Re: Liberal Party.

Postby ScottSA » Oct 29th, 2012, 7:56 am

George+ wrote:Yes but...
If the Liberals make a comeback because of the
Conservatives total failure than
The Green Party could spoil it for the NDP,... AGAIN!

I'd really like to know where this myth of "total failure" of the Conservatives comes from. 15 people in the lower mainland made a media stink for about a month, and all of a sudden it's a "total failure?" Just so everyone knows, the same people - many of whom are acknowledged Liberals - are still pumping out news releases, but even the media has twigged onto what's going on and are ignoring them.

The BC Liberals are in a death spiral and the Conservatives are resurgent because no one in their right mind (erroneous bumper-sticker graphics notwithstanding) wants the NDP to drag a plow through the BC economy again.

Take the Pipeline - both the NDP and the Liberals are trying to please everyone by essentially lying to people. The Liberals are all over the map according to the polls of the moment; one day "yes" and the next day refusing to even talk to Enbridge officials; the NDP are against it but choose to hide behind a completely redundant "environmental review." The BC Conservatives are the only party to actually take a stand and say "yes" to the pipeline, with the caveat that strict environmental controls are in place.

Like that position or dislike it as you will, but at least we're being honest about it. That type of upfront honesty will be our hallmark, and I believe the people of BC deserve it.
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Re: Liberal Party.

Postby keith1612 » Oct 29th, 2012, 8:43 am

ScottSA wrote:I'd really like to know where this myth of "total failure" of the Conservatives comes from. 15 people in the lower mainland made a media stink for about a month, and all of a sudden it's a "total failure?" Just so everyone knows, the same people - many of whom are acknowledged Liberals - are still pumping out news releases, but even the media has twigged onto what's going on and are ignoring them.

The BC Liberals are in a death spiral and the Conservatives are resurgent because no one in their right mind (erroneous bumper-sticker graphics notwithstanding) wants the NDP to drag a plow through the BC economy again.

Take the Pipeline - both the NDP and the Liberals are trying to please everyone by essentially lying to people. The Liberals are all over the map according to the polls of the moment; one day "yes" and the next day refusing to even talk to Enbridge officials; the NDP are against it but choose to hide behind a completely redundant "environmental review." The BC Conservatives are the only party to actually take a stand and say "yes" to the pipeline, with the caveat that strict environmental controls are in place.

Like that position or dislike it as you will, but at least we're being honest about it. That type of upfront honesty will be our hallmark, and I believe the people of BC deserve it.


well considering BC voters do not want the pipeline i would hope nobody will vote for them.
We are voting the liberals out for that attitude and the last thing we need is another group of flakes telling us regardless of opinions they know whats best for us.
up front honesty means nothing when its used with no care to the voters wishes.
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Re: Liberal Party.

Postby maple leaf » Oct 29th, 2012, 10:43 am

As we approach the upcoming election be prepared duck when Christy Clark turns around as her nose will be ever growing longer and longer.And don't expect the main stream media to call her on the lies and miss leading speak.

.
Posted by RossK at Monday, October 29, 2012 0 comments
Sunday, October 28, 2012
#BCL12 Aftermath...David Akin Fisks Lotuslandian ProMedia...
.
.... And Agrees With Radical Nutbar Know-Nothing Bloggers.


Yesterday we noted that our (not) Premier was making stuff up during her speech to the pom pom-waving faithful up the Condo-King highway.

We also noted that the local herd media would very likely play it straight-up.

And they did.

And David Akin noticed.

And he called a number of them out by name.

Here is Mr. Akin's lede:

On Saturday, BC Premier Christy Clark spoke to her party’s convention in Whistler, B.C. During the speech, she mentioned several times that B.C. was leading the country when it came to job creation.

For example, as the Vancouver Sun‘s Jonathan Fowlie reported, Clark said, “I’m going to run on (being) number one in job creation.” The Globe‘s Gary Mason, reporting on the speech,wrote, “As expected, there was lots of talk about recent job-creation numbers that ranked B.C. first in the country.” Dirk Meissner of the Canadian Press wrote: “She [Clark] said B.C. has created 57,000 jobs over the last year, more than any other province in Canada.”

That last claim is demonstrably false and the others are pretty wobbly too.Statistics Canada, said right here on October 5, the most recent and up-to-date snapshot of the country’s job creation numbers, that “over the last year” in B.C., there are 44,700 more full-time jobs, 15,100 fewer part-time jobs for a net gain of 29,500 more jobs. Where on earth does Clark get 57,000 new jobs created?

And, frankly, I’m a little surprised that all of these reporters just took Clark’s boast on its face rather than look it up and challenge her on the claim that that B.C is “number one in job creation.” ...



Clearly, Mr. Akin is not in the club (although, to be fair, like HST before him, he got to leave town after the fisking was done). Too bad, though, that he didn't call anybody a waterhead and/or 'Ron Obvious'. On the latter count, luckily, we still have something left to bang the keyboard for (stay tuned for that one - and yes, it does involve 'the video').


_______
Of course, there are also all those things that her government has 'done' to the people of British Columbia over the last eleven years that Ms. Clark did NOT mention in her speech yesterday...If you've forgotten a few of those we would be happy to help jog our memory (aurally, of course)
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Re: Liberal Party.

Postby maple leaf » Oct 29th, 2012, 10:52 am

ScottSA wrote:I'd really like to know where this myth of "total failure" of the Conservatives comes from.

no one in their right mind (erroneous bumper-sticker graphics notwithstanding) wants the NDP to drag a plow through the BC economy again.



Same place that the myth about the lost decade of the 90's comes from.That one started from Gordon Campbell and has been repeated by the right so often, they actually believe it,but have nothing to back it up.It is the right's way, to make things up and a repeat it often enough and a myth is born,and the gullible eat it up.And from the post above they are still attempting to pull a fast one with the real facts and truth.
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Re: Liberal Party.

Postby LoneWolf_53 » Oct 29th, 2012, 11:20 am

maple leaf wrote:It is the right's way, to make things up and a repeat it often enough and a myth is born,and the gullible eat it up.


Sort of like it's the lefts way to ignore telling little details, like the multiple resignations, in disgrace, of NDP leaders, which you seem to figure won't have happened if you ignore it long enough.
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Re: Liberal Party.

Postby Jo » Oct 29th, 2012, 11:23 am

This thread is becoming more suited to the Political Arena. Clean up your act or the thread will either be locked or will be moved to the other forum.
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Re: Liberal Party.

Postby ScottSA » Oct 30th, 2012, 8:24 am

keith1612 wrote:
ScottSA wrote:I'd really like to know where this myth of "total failure" of the Conservatives comes from. 15 people in the lower mainland made a media stink for about a month, and all of a sudden it's a "total failure?" Just so everyone knows, the same people - many of whom are acknowledged Liberals - are still pumping out news releases, but even the media has twigged onto what's going on and are ignoring them.

The BC Liberals are in a death spiral and the Conservatives are resurgent because no one in their right mind (erroneous bumper-sticker graphics notwithstanding) wants the NDP to drag a plow through the BC economy again.

Take the Pipeline - both the NDP and the Liberals are trying to please everyone by essentially lying to people. The Liberals are all over the map according to the polls of the moment; one day "yes" and the next day refusing to even talk to Enbridge officials; the NDP are against it but choose to hide behind a completely redundant "environmental review." The BC Conservatives are the only party to actually take a stand and say "yes" to the pipeline, with the caveat that strict environmental controls are in place.

Like that position or dislike it as you will, but at least we're being honest about it. That type of upfront honesty will be our hallmark, and I believe the people of BC deserve it.


well considering BC voters do not want the pipeline i would hope nobody will vote for them.
We are voting the liberals out for that attitude and the last thing we need is another group of flakes telling us regardless of opinions they know whats best for us.
up front honesty means nothing when its used with no care to the voters wishes.
One thing I find is that when people talk only to like-minded people, a sense of consensus builds up. It's easy to project that consensus onto the rest of society and assume that most people think the same way we do. I remember one of the famous lines to come out of the 2012 recall election in Wisconsin was an overheard university student's: "how could [Republican Wisconsin governor Scott Walker] get elected? Everyone I know voted Democrat!" The same thing applies to all of us - most of us live in a fairly insular intellectual capsule and it's easy to think the rest of the world thinks like us.

A great many people in BC understand that we need highly paid, highly skilled jobs. They demand that strict environmental controls are employed, but understand that we have to get over the tendency to hear the word "environment" and run screaming from the room. Every time you get in your car you "hurt" the environment. Every time you turn on the lights you "hurt" the environment. Everything you use, including your clothes and your house and your food is produced using fossil fuels and producing them "hurts" the environment. Just waking up in the morning hurts the environment. The best we can do is create a balance between hurting the environment and existing in a province that's not poverty-stricken.

Our kids are leaving this province - especially the interior. We need to change that, and saying "no" to every prospect of real jobs, while dreaming of magical "green jobs" isn't going to do it. It just won't. We'll hear all sorts of rhetoric from the NDP at election time about fantastical "opportunities" in green technology, as we always do, and as usual after election time they'll morph into grand statist failures. Northern Gateway - if the estimates prove out - will produce 4100 person-years of short term and 35,000 person years of ongoing work. With strict environmental oversight, we need those jobs.
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Re: Liberal Party.

Postby Alvis » Oct 31st, 2012, 8:13 am

One thing I find is that when people talk only to like-minded people, a sense of consensus builds up. It's easy to project that consensus onto the rest of society and assume that most people think the same way we do. I remember one of the famous lines to come out of the 2012 recall election in Wisconsin was an overheard university student's: "how could [Republican Wisconsin governor Scott Walker] get elected? Everyone I know voted Democrat!" The same thing applies to all of us - most of us live in a fairly insular intellectual capsule and it's easy to think the rest of the world thinks like us.

A great many people in BC understand that we need highly paid, highly skilled jobs. They demand that strict environmental controls are employed, but understand that we have to get over the tendency to hear the word "environment" and run screaming from the room. Every time you get in your car you "hurt" the environment. Every time you turn on the lights you "hurt" the environment. Everything you use, including your clothes and your house and your food is produced using fossil fuels and producing them "hurts" the environment. Just waking up in the morning hurts the environment. The best we can do is create a balance between hurting the environment and existing in a province that's not poverty-stricken.

Our kids are leaving this province - especially the interior. We need to change that, and saying "no" to every prospect of real jobs, while dreaming of magical "green jobs" isn't going to do it. It just won't. We'll hear all sorts of rhetoric from the NDP at election time about fantastical "opportunities" in green technology, as we always do, and as usual after election time they'll morph into grand statist failures. Northern Gateway - if the estimates prove out - will produce 4100 person-years of short term and 35,000 person years of ongoing work. With strict environmental oversight, we need those jobs.



After a dozen years of right wing BC Liberals policies that have destoryed the province, you expect the people of BC to vote for the BC Conservative Party which is made up of the SAME PEOPLE that were part of the BC Liberals "New Era"?

Wow. As for your comment on NDP "rhetoric" give me a break. All you can do is spew recycled BC Liberal talking points. Even Stockwell Day doesn't support you guys. Thinka bout that: Stockwell Day.
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Re: Liberal Party.

Postby George+ » Oct 31st, 2012, 8:19 am

Yes, but.....
Stockyard was always good at realizing what side his bread was buttered by.
He prefers, BOTH!

His desertion of the provincial Conservatives is simply a way to get good consulting fees.
Wonder what he got paid for speaking at Whistler?

Besides THINK of this-the RRREEEFFFOOORRRMMM Party is influencing the provincial Liberals???
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Re: Liberal Party.

Postby maple leaf » Oct 31st, 2012, 10:20 am

Going back to the Boessenkool resignation,this is very good example of how Christy Clark spews miss information and half truths and lies.Everyone remember her standing up saying "All of the procedures were absolutely followed."
Here are the procedures,see for yourself how it is suppose to be done, then how Vaugn palmer explains how Christy Clark follows procedures.

Appointment of Adjudicator
The Employer will appoint an Adjudicator within 10 working days of receiving the written notice of referral for adjudication. The Adjudicator will either be appointed from a mutually agreed upon list, or will be someone who is agreeable to both the Employer and the Bargaining Agent.

The written complaint will specify the details of the allegation including:
name, title and ministry of the respondent;
a description of the action, conduct, events or circumstances involved in the complaint;
the specific remedy sought to satisfy the complaint;
dates of incidents;
names of witnesses (if any); and
prior attempts to resolve (if any).
The Deputy Minister will provide a copy of the complaint to the respondent. The Deputy Minister will acknowledge, in writing, receipt of the written complaint, have the matter investigated and take such steps as may be required to resolve the matter.
The employee and association representative, if applicable, will be advised in writing of the proposed resolution within 30 days from the date the Deputy Minister received the written complaint or a later mutually agreed upon date.


Snip: But, no. In answer to Fowlie's first request, the government responded Monday: "Although a thorough search was conducted, no records were located in response to your request." In response to the second request: Ditto.

Neither records nor correspondence. No emails, nothing from the network of BlackBerrys, not even a text message.

The answer was so all-embracing, Fowlie considered the possibility that he'd filed the request to the wrong agency. Perhaps the material was on file elsewhere in the hydra-headed government.

No again. When he put the question to the office of the premier, he was advised that the government wasn't holding back anything. There were no records of this affair. The entire matter was handled "verbally," from start to finish.

So, to recap what the Liberals have put on the public record, the complaint against the chief of staff came to the premier's office not long after the Sept. 7 incident happened. The premier herself was advised of it in short order.

Despite the severity of the allegation, she allowed Boessenkool to remain at his post while the investigation was delegated to the Public Service Agency.

The agency head handled the investigation herself, conducting the interviews, making the necessary inquiries, drawing all the conclusions. She then reported back to the premier, who concluded Boessenkool had to go, a verdict with which he himself (judging from his letter of resignation and the absence of any severance package) concurred.

All those events unfolded over the space of two weeks without anyone generating a single, solitary scrap of paper. Not even a memo that could have been redacted by the Liberals under the many options available to them in the access-to-information law, which is riddled with loopholes.

Incredible. Just incredible.

The nothing-in-writing approach does cast a somewhat different light on the premier's initial characterization of the way she handled the Boes-senkool departure.

"Our review immediately began and that review followed the processes that are set out and laid down by B.C.'s Public Service Agency," she told reporters after the news broke on Sept. 24. "All of the procedures were absolutely followed."

Really? Agency procedures are posted in detail on the government website. The emphasis is on putting things in writing, particularly regarding matters serious enough to warrant a resignation, as did this one. Not much about the word-of-mouth option.

Clark again: "After the investigation was done and I was presented with all the facts, I had a decision to make and I made that decision."

After she was presented with the facts in a strictly oral briefing. No notes, interview transcripts or written recommendations.

And again: "I think an employer has a duty to gather the facts before letting someone go."

How many employers, confronted with these circumstances involving one of the senior officials in their organization, would neglect to put the key findings in writing, just in case either the complainant or the target of the complaint were to seek legal recourse?

Lastly: "Everything that was done, was done absolutely to the letter." Which is not to say that her government generated an actual letter, or, indeed even one written word that could be sought after the fact by a pesky journalist.

Amateurish and sneaky at the same time.

But at least we now know how badly Clark wanted to keep people in the dark about her handling of the departure of one of the most powerful officials in her government.

vpalmer@vancouversun.com



Read more: http://www.vancouversun.com/Handling+Bo ... z2Atf623Nx
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Re: Liberal Party.

Postby greylady » Nov 1st, 2012, 6:14 pm

Excellent post, maple. And the concern about Christy not having a paper trail or 'doing things properly' is growing. This could expose taxpayers to a HUGE liability!

Editorial: Lack of records raises questions

November 1, 2012 4:03 PM

It’s disturbing to think that no record was kept of an investigation conducted into the behaviour of Ken Boessenkool, Premier Christy Clark’s chief of staff who resigned in September because of an incident at a bar after a golf party. The absence of a paper trail violates basic human-resources procedures and flies in the face of logic.

Boessenkool, a high-profile Alberta Conservative who had been hired eight months before to bolster the B.C. Liberals’ right wing, allegedly conducted himself improperly toward a female government staff member after the Sept. 7 golf tournament.

The incident was reported to Clark, who announced on Sept. 24 that the incident had been reviewed according to public-service guidelines. She said she met with Boessenkool to discuss the matter, and he submitted his resignation.

In the two weeks between the incident and Boessenkool’s resignation, the matter was considered by the premier and passed on to Lynda Tarras, head of the Public Service Agency, which handles personnel matters for the government. Tarras investigated the matter and reported back to the premier.

“After that work was done, I made a decision and I accepted the resignation of my chief of staff,” Clark told reporters. “When I sat down with Ken, I knew that he would have to resign, and he agreed that that was the right course to take.”

She said the investigation was conducted according to Public Service Agency guidelines.

In response to freedom-of-information requests from the Vancouver Sun, the B.C. government said no records of any kind were kept. The premier’s office said everything was conducted verbally.

That would have human-resources managers all over the country clutching their chests in horror and gasping for breath. One of the fundamentals of investigating an employee for possible discipline is to make notes of every conversation and build a paper trail that will stand up in any tribunal.

HR experts are taught this maxim early: “A short pencil is better than a long memory.” To appear before a judge or an adjudicator without records is simply unthinkable.

That Boessenkool’s conduct merited termination seems obvious in hindsight, as he took responsibility in his letter of resignation. Nothing further is likely to come of it.

But it exposes the province to liability. An employee coerced to resign can sue for constructive dismissal (although it’s highly improbable that Boessenkool would do that). Without records of any kind — diaries, handwritten notes, emails, text messages, memos — an employer wouldn’t stand much chance of winning the case.

It’s hard to believe no notes were taken, no messages sent, no written information exchanged in a two-week investigation, unless there was a deliberate and conscious decision not to put anything in writing. It’s human nature that civil servants would be leery of freedom-of-information requests, but the public’s business should be conducted transparently.

The wise course of action would be to exercise discretion in keeping notes, not to refrain completely from writing anything down.

Certainly, the identity of the person who was allegedly the target of Boessenkool’s unwanted attentions is not something to be made public, and there may be other sensitive information properly kept confidential.

Ken Boessenkool’s conduct, whatever it was, is almost irrelevant now. It was a minor scandal, a mere blip in history.
Of deeper concern is the apparent disregard for proper procedures and lack of prudence in how the incident was handled.


© Copyright (c) The Victoria Times Colonist

Read more: http://www.timescolonist.com/Editorial+ ... z2B1DIdSB4
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