B.C. teen arrested for photographing mall takedown

[OnTheRoadAgain]

Well - sort of.

The mall is a "Public Place" - in as much as the parking lot of the mall is a "Public Road". Police and can do hand out traffic violation tickets in mall parking lots for those who'd like to turn donuts in them.

The mall is a "Public Place" in that it's generally open to the public. They can prohibit photography by means of posting a sign at the entrance. They can ask you to stop photographing after the fact, and they can ask you to leave.

What they cannot do is insist that you delete or destroy your photographs. Even further, those mall guards had absolutely zero legal grounds on which to detain the teenager unless they suspected him of shoplifting. They *should* have escorted him to the exit, and called the police only if he refused to leave.

The police officers should have known better. If it were me, personally, I'd have been demanding charges laid against the guards for wrongful arrest. Those security guards, hands down, committed a criminal act. (Read s494(2) of the CCoC for clarification).

Sounds to me that they may have committed more than one criminal act..,.why do they want the photos deleted if they followed protocol while holding the man for arrest? Why would they leave that arrest to chase a guy who took a picture of it?

[steelrules]

THINGS TO REMEMBER.
#1 If on foot you do not have to show ID.
#2 Make it clear to any police you do not consent to any searches "even you car can not be searched".
#3 Keep asking if your under arrest, you can be briefly detained without charges but they must let you go.
#4 Keep asking if your free to go.
#5 Do not answer any questions if arrested.

Know your rights & excercise them or lose them.
http://ccla.org/wordpress/wp-content/up ... oklet1.pdf

[twobits]

Wow, four pages of banter because some people just can't wrap their heads around the fact that private property can be considered a public place and also seem to think that mall "rules" are equivelant to criminal laws.

The kid took a cpl of pics in a public space where there was a rule not to do so. He broke a rule, not a law. He even posted the pics online. Do you think for one minute that if he was actually breaking a law by taking AND postings those pics, he wouldn't have already been criminally charged? The mall would be pressing for it to mitigate the civil suit that is likely and rightfully coming their way.

My prediction. A quiet settlement, apology, two unemployed or re educated security guards, and a cpl of mounties with a reprimand on their records.

[grammafreddy]

If I was a betting person, I'd be betting that nobody would have said or done anything if the camera hadn't been aimed at the security guards doing the take-down. People take pics in malls all the time these days - especially kids with their cell phones - and nobody harasses them for that. I've wandered all over malls taking pictures (flash and all) of seasonal displays, kids on Santa's knee, interesting window displays, all kinds of things - and never once was I ever told I couldn't.

IMO these guards overreacted and so did the cops.

[twobits]

If I was a betting person, I'd be betting that nobody would have said or done anything if the camera hadn't been aimed at the security guards doing the take-down.

Exactly. It was because it was evidence of them breaking a law, not the kid breaking a rule. Without the picture evidence and a lack of eye witnesses, it could have been only we said he said.

[Captain Awesome]

Not bad of a photo, though.

[FreeRights]

If I was a betting person, I'd be betting that nobody would have said or done anything if the camera hadn't been aimed at the security guards doing the take-down. People take pics in malls all the time these days - especially kids with their cell phones - and nobody harasses them for that. I've wandered all over malls taking pictures (flash and all) of seasonal displays, kids on Santa's knee, interesting window displays, all kinds of things - and never once was I ever told I couldn't.

IMO these guards overreacted and so did the cops.

So, let me get this straight. Because you have taken photos in other malls that may or may not have existing no-photography policies, Metrotown security and Burnaby RCMP are in the wrong.

You have a very strange and wholly inaccurate trail of logic. I thought it was common knowledge, but I suppose I have to remind you that different private properties do have different policies, and they also have different ways to handle deviance to said policies.

[grammafreddy]

If I was a betting person, I'd be betting that nobody would have said or done anything if the camera hadn't been aimed at the security guards doing the take-down. People take pics in malls all the time these days - especially kids with their cell phones - and nobody harasses them for that. I've wandered all over malls taking pictures (flash and all) of seasonal displays, kids on Santa's knee, interesting window displays, all kinds of things - and never once was I ever told I couldn't.

IMO these guards overreacted and so did the cops.

So, let me get this straight. Because you have taken photos in other malls that may or may not have existing no-photography policies, Metrotown security and Burnaby RCMP are in the wrong.

You have a very strange and wholly inaccurate trail of logic. I thought it was common knowledge, but I suppose I have to remind you that different private properties do have different policies, and they also have different ways to handle deviance to said policies.

You can "get it as straight" as you like. You gonna try and tell me NOBODY takes pics on their cellphones at that mall? Do the security guys stop every kid with a cell phone taking a pic of their friends and demand they delete their pics?

You also gonna tell me no parent has ever taken a pic of their kid on Santa's knee at Christmas at that mall because some sign somewhere says they can't? What're the security guys gonna do then? Accost the parents and demand they delete those pics of their kids with Santa? Call the cops and take them away in handcuffs?

[keith1612]

So, let me get this straight. Because you have taken photos in other malls that may or may not have existing no-photography policies, Metrotown security and Burnaby RCMP are in the wrong.

You have a very strange and wholly inaccurate trail of logic. I thought it was common knowledge, but I suppose I have to remind you that different private properties do have different policies, and they also have different ways to handle deviance to said policies.

the mall cops were wrong for roughing up a kid to try and erase photo's of them acting like strip club bouncers.
the real cops were wrong for not giving the mall thugs a stern warning thats not acceptable.
the kid didnt break any legal laws in Canada.
if he had the police would have confiscated the photo, notice they did not.

[keith1612]

hmmm maybe its more of a mall issue than people think




CBC News has obtained video of another violent takedown by private undercover security guards, this time at Vancouver’s Pacific Centre Mall.

The shaky cellphone video shows a man who appears to have one leg, in an electric wheelchair, surrounded by three undercover security guards who suspect him of shoplifting.

One of the officers starts swearing, before knocking the man out of his wheelchair with a blow to the head.

"I'll f--kin' throw you on the ground and f--k you up!” the guard is heard saying on the video. “Don't f--k with me ... On the ground! On the ground! On the ground! You're so stupid — on your chest!"

One eyewitness who doesn’t want her name used because she works nearby sent the video to CBC News. She said the incident was witnessed by up to 50 people, many of whom demanded the guards stop and called police.

Doug King of the Pivot Legal Society says even if the suspect was physically resisting arrest, nothing justifies the violent takedown.

“I wouldn’t even call that an arrest — I’d call that an assault,” he said. “There’s nothing in the law that authorizes you to strike somebody like that.”

King says it’s unlikely the guards seen in the video were doing what they were trained to do.

“The language really stands out — it proves that this wasn’t even an arrest, it was an act of violence,” he said.

“It’s an example of when security guards get a little too emotional in situations — just because someone commits a criminal offence, it doesn’t mean they don’t have any rights, and they have the right not to be assaulted by people.”
Guards acted accordingly, says employer

The guards are employees of the Genesis Security Group, which is under contract by the Downtown Vancouver Business Improvement Association to patrol member businesses, including those in Pacific Centre Mall.
Genesis Security Group vice-president Ashley Meehan says man in the wheelchair resisted arrest and the guards responded to the situation accordingly. Genesis Security Group vice-president Ashley Meehan says man in the wheelchair resisted arrest and the guards responded to the situation accordingly. (CBC)

Genesis Security vice-president Ashley Meehan says the company is investigating and takes the incident very seriously.

“When we look at footage like that, obviously we need to look at the whole situation,” he said. “We’re looking at about a 30-second video of something that would have been several minutes long as an incident.”

Meehan says the victim has multiple prior cases of shoplifting and theft.

“He was identified in breaking the law, with shoplifting, and was approached on this and did resist and the guards themselves responded to it accordingly and obviously have to make the arrest,” Meehan said.

“As far as I know he was being aggressive towards them … and there was possible assault.”

Karen English with the Justice Institute of B.C., which sets the standard and created the curriculum for licensing security workers in the province, says it’s up to the guards themselves to ensure they work within the parameters of the law.

“I think the individual’s responsibility begins before the training,” she said.

“The responsibility of the employer, the hiring process, the training is one thing — going beyond that is the individual and other things that may affect how they perform their actions.”

Both the Downtown Vancouver Business Improvement Association and Cadillac Fairview, the company that owns Pacific Centre Mall, say they are also investigating the incident.

According to the Vancouver Police Department, no charges were laid against the guards or the alleged shoplifter.

The incident comes a week after CBC News broke the story of a teenager who was pushed to the ground and arrested by security guards at Burnaby's Metrotown Mall.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-c ... chair.html

[Ken7]

Great to see some of you did your homework.

Fact is the kid did nothing wrong by law. The RCMP in this case may have arrived when there was a disturbance. They therefore took action by removing the youth from the mall and further preventing the disturbance from continuing.

Once the RCMP determined what occurred, they appear to have done the proper thing.

Sent the youth on his way.

They might have even had a coffee with the Mall Clowns and explained to them, what their rights were in the event this type of incident occurred again.

[keith1612]

Great to see some of you did your homework.

Fact is the kid did nothing wrong by law. The RCMP in this case may have arrived when there was a disturbance. They therefore took action by removing the youth from the mall and further preventing the disturbance from continuing.

Once the RCMP determined what occurred, they appear to have done the proper thing.

Sent the youth on his way.

They might have even had a coffee with the Mall Clowns and explained to them, what their rights were in the event this type of incident occurred again.

they should have explained very seriously to them that they dont have the authority.
look at the idiot neighborhood watch guy in the states that shot a kid, non trained people should not feel they have the power.
a few years ago a guy at a vernon bush resort lake came up to me and my wife on the lake ice fishing and tried to force me off the lake for a fire, he then told me he would snowplow my truck in and make me walk home.
i had the police go up and chat with him, i gave them the option you do it or i do with a bat.
he has no right to threaten my life because he feels he is the lake watchman.

[keith1612]

canadian security guards i do not think have any special rights to act like cops the weird thing is the police allow them

[Ken7]

canadian security guards i do not think have any special rights to act like cops the weird thing is the police allow them

You are assuming the RCMP gave them a pat on the back.

We do not know for certain unless you were present.

They might have read them the riot act, oh that’s police terminology for giving them *bleep* and telling them they screwed up royally further pointing it out to them what their legal rights are…..

[keith1612]

well they sure as hell dont charge them fast it seems