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H.S.T.

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Re: H.S.T.

Postby RichardW » Nov 4th, 2012, 3:33 pm

NAB wrote:Anyone who actually believed the "promise" that the BC HST would be dropped from 12% to 10%, at least without raising other taxes or creating new ones to compensate, was dreaming ......both in Technicolor and 3D. So few it seems heard, read or understood the waivers that were delivered along with that idea.

Edit to add: Put another way, almost everyone heard the proposal to gradually reduce the HST from 12 to 10%, ....some even heard the associated dialogue re proposed Carbon Tax changes at the same time. But it seems only the brightest among the electorate went on to hear and read everything that followed, ..usually preceded by the words "provided" and/or "if". And as things have worked out since, there is no way they could have met that reduction proposal. And I fully suspect they knew at the time they made it they wouldn't be able to.


Meanwhile, plenty of people believed that the PST would be returned exactly like it was, when they voted to strap the HST. Full details of the 'new' PST have yet to be revealed, but it looks like the new tax will be charged on more things than the old PST. For example, the definition of tangible personal property has been expanded to tax more supplies than before.

Even so, that's all beside the point. Any given government will use the tax instruments it has to raise the revenue it needs. It just seems better if the tax instruments they have are as efficient as possible and tax as fairly as possible. Combining two taxes into one existing tax seems to tick the efficiency box, and taxing all supplies in the same way (except zero rated and exempt) seems to tick the fairness box.
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Re: H.S.T.

Postby NAB » Nov 4th, 2012, 3:41 pm

I might agree were it two or more provincial taxes. But I feel strongly that provincial amd federal taxes should be kept religiously separate.

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Re: H.S.T.

Postby keith1612 » Nov 4th, 2012, 3:45 pm

RichardW wrote:
NAB wrote:Anyone who actually believed the "promise" that the BC HST would be dropped from 12% to 10%, at least without raising other taxes or creating new ones to compensate, was dreaming ......both in Technicolor and 3D. So few it seems heard, read or understood the waivers that were delivered along with that idea.

Edit to add: Put another way, almost everyone heard the proposal to gradually reduce the HST from 12 to 10%, ....some even heard the associated dialogue re proposed Carbon Tax changes at the same time. But it seems only the brightest among the electorate went on to hear and read everything that followed, ..usually preceded by the words "provided" and/or "if". And as things have worked out since, there is no way they could have met that reduction proposal. And I fully suspect they knew at the time they made it they wouldn't be able to.


Meanwhile, plenty of people believed that the PST would be returned exactly like it was, when they voted to strap the HST. Full details of the 'new' PST have yet to be revealed, but it looks like the new tax will be charged on more things than the old PST. For example, the definition of tangible personal property has been expanded to tax more supplies than before.

Even so, that's all beside the point. Any given government will use the tax instruments it has to raise the revenue it needs. It just seems better if the tax instruments they have are as efficient as possible and tax as fairly as possible. Combining two taxes into one existing tax seems to tick the efficiency box, and taxing all supplies in the same way (except zero rated and exempt) seems to tick the fairness box.


the people of BC voted to have the taxes returned to what they were before.
it should be exactly what it was before the HST and then let the people vote on it.
if the Liberals stopped raping BC taxpayers to hand out lavish pensions and bonuses and big CEO payoff's im sure the old taxation rates would have sufficed.
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Re: H.S.T.

Postby NAB » Nov 4th, 2012, 3:51 pm

Yes, many people did think (erroneously) that the PST would be returned exactly "as it was", but that was never promised. What's more,what difference would it have made if it had been? The provincial government has total authority over provincial taxation in any case, and can alter the PST at will.... always could.
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Re: H.S.T.

Postby keith1612 » Nov 4th, 2012, 4:10 pm

NAB wrote:Yes, many people did think (erroneously) that the PST would be returned exactly "as it was", but that was never promised. What's more,what difference would it have made if it had been? The provincial government has total authority over provincial taxation in any case, and can alter the PST at will.... always could.


yes i suppose they can.
hope Christy and her crew are happy when they get run out soon.
i bet they dont get back in power for a long time.
you can only screw over the people so often before they say enough and i think they topped that level long ago.
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Re: H.S.T.

Postby WhatThe » Nov 4th, 2012, 4:59 pm

Logitack wrote:
yeah, it works better for business, you know the ones who received the biggest BENEFIT from the HST. the fact that it has been 3 plus years and not ONE of the promises the liberals made have come true, prices were not reduced, jobs were not increased.

Yeah, I've heard that before. It needed time for that to happen, years in fact, because HST actually increased our operating expenses by 7%. That's a large jump and business had to absorb that. why would they drop prices immediately? At the minimum it would take ONE fiscal year to see consumer benefits. However since there was uncertainty (uncertainty is never good for business, investment and the economy) about taxation we waited to see what happened, and the fools among us have literally cost business money. There will be little price drop, if any, when April comes around.
Well done!
Our problem is that people are obedient all over the world in the face of poverty and starvation, and war, and cruelty. People are obedient while the jails are full of petty thieves, while the grand thieves are running the country. That's our problem.
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Re: H.S.T.

Postby NAB » Nov 4th, 2012, 5:07 pm

That's OK. People are learning lots of ways to avoid patronizing overpriced BC businesses, or at least spend far less money with them than they otherwise might have. That's what the HST really did for our businesses. And it's going to get far far worse I'm afraid.
Last edited by NAB on Nov 4th, 2012, 5:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: H.S.T.

Postby keith1612 » Nov 4th, 2012, 5:09 pm

WhatThe wrote:
Logitack wrote:
yeah, it works better for business, you know the ones who received the biggest BENEFIT from the HST. the fact that it has been 3 plus years and not ONE of the promises the liberals made have come true, prices were not reduced, jobs were not increased.

Yeah, I've heard that before. It needed time for that to happen, years in fact, because HST actually increased our operating expenses by 7%. That's a large jump and business had to absorb that. why would they drop prices immediately? At the minimum it would take ONE fiscal year to see consumer benefits. However since there was uncertainty (uncertainty is never good for business, investment and the economy) about taxation we waited to see what happened, and the fools among us have literally cost business money. There will be little price drop, if any, when April comes around.
Well done!

lmao, price drop?
well if prices stay the same the general consumer is far ahead without the HST.
do the math on 5% extra revenue for the government on every used car,boat,motorcycle etc.
now on top of that add 5% to every single labour bill written by every company in BC.
do the math on the price of home reno's etc.
there is no gain to this sleeze tax to consumers in BC.
look ar sports equipment etc that used to be exempt and sports fee's, all taxed.
no this was a scam and its pretty easy to see.
no government ever changes a system to help the people, its a straight cash grab for them.
Harper gave BC a great cash handout because this tax is revenue neutral (as the liberal liars said)?
hell no.
he knew he would collect billions extra.
thank you Gordy and Christy.
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Re: H.S.T.

Postby sooperphreek » Nov 4th, 2012, 7:34 pm

what would be funny is if the ndp gets in and has their say on what that tax system looks like. imagine the horror and hysteria by businesses and the fraser institute if they raise taxes on things that are not popular to them. it will be fun days ahead.
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Re: H.S.T.

Postby keith1612 » Nov 4th, 2012, 7:48 pm

sooperphreek wrote:what would be funny is if the ndp gets in and has their say on what that tax system looks like. imagine the horror and hysteria by businesses and the fraser institute if they raise taxes on things that are not popular to them. it will be fun days ahead.

If they get in?
lol pretty much a walk in the park for them to get elected after what the other two have been doing i would bet.
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Re: H.S.T.

Postby kumazatheef » Nov 6th, 2012, 9:58 pm

keith1612 wrote:consider all the extra $$$, its a cash grab for the government.
millions and millions.


Do you think the Government just sits on the cash like a corporation?
For every thread that complains about taxes, there's another that complains about the Government cutting programs.
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Re: H.S.T.

Postby keith1612 » Nov 6th, 2012, 10:17 pm

kumazatheef wrote:
keith1612 wrote:consider all the extra $$$, its a cash grab for the government.
millions and millions.


Do you think the Government just sits on the cash like a corporation?
For every thread that complains about taxes, there's another that complains about the Government cutting programs.


no they dont just sit on it, alot goes to Christys credit card bills, then im sure her 5k coffee fund and oh ya lets not forget the CEO of BC ferry's and ohh i could just go on and on with the list of thieves.
they sure are not using it to fix health care, schools. roads,etc.
some of it must have went to pay for Gordy's new fancy job overseas.
im sure they have found places for it to go to other than the BC taxpayers.
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Re: H.S.T.

Postby Gone_Fishin » Nov 6th, 2012, 10:23 pm

Logitack wrote:
RichardW wrote:With the HST, a lot of things worked better, more efficiently and more fairly.


yeah, it works better for business, you know the ones who received the biggest BENEFIT from the HST. the fact that it has been 3 plus years and not ONE of the promises the liberals made have come true, prices were not reduced, jobs were not increased. the fact that the hst is still being promoted by the liberal lapdogs is hilarious.



Interesting though that BC leads Canada in job creation over the past year and inflation is the lowest of any province (tied with Ontario at 0.7%, the other province that adopted the HST). But don't let that get in the way of your most excellent rant about no jobs and high prices. Carry on.
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Re: H.S.T.

Postby Gone_Fishin » Nov 6th, 2012, 10:25 pm

keith1612 wrote:some of it must have went to pay for Gordy's new fancy job overseas.



You do understand that Gordy works for the federal government, and not BC, right?
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Re: H.S.T.

Postby kumazatheef » Nov 6th, 2012, 10:49 pm

keith1612 wrote:no they dont just sit on it, alot goes to Christys credit card bills, then im sure her 5k coffee fund and oh ya lets not forget the CEO of BC ferry's and ohh i could just go on and on with the list of thieves.
they sure are not using it to fix health care, schools. roads,etc.
some of it must have went to pay for Gordy's new fancy job overseas.
im sure they have found places for it to go to other than the BC taxpayers.


Please do ... go on with the list of thieves ...
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