BC health care workers vote to strike

[W105]

just have to add my 2 cents..my husband is a Tradesman (yes he went to school) and he had to lower his wage recently too..we get no benefits, no pension plan..in fact at one time he was expected to supply his own van, insurance, cell phone and even contribute to WCB off his hourly wage (???)

my brother in law worked many years for a union in Vancouver...he had an awesome wage, 8 weeks (paid) holidays, 12 sick days per year, even a few "mental health" days...full benefits and a nice pension plan...all he did was complain...he used to laugh at my husband for having to work so hard while he was living the life...well, his company got shut down..his Union pushed too far...now his so called awesome pension plan went from $3300 a mth, to $1200 a mth now down to $800 a mth (he's in his mid 50's, no reason to retire quite yet in my opinion, his health is in great shape) and I tell ya it's very hard not to LAUGH at him now...his Union priced him right out of a job..he's actually amazed that he's only getting offered $12 a hr and expected to really work now...(oh and NO benefits)

so I agree with Keith and Grammafreddy...now is not the time to ask for more..I really appreciate what Healthworkers do, but we're all hurting right now...so maybe we all should just be glad with what we got ???

[Smurf]

Lets look further at this. People use the argument quite often in favor of HST that if the business expenses, taxes, go down then prices will drop. Or vice versa if they go up consumer costs will go up to cover it. Okay that makes sense, however it also makes sense that if the business needs a new truck of gives it's an employees a raise then customer costs will also go up. Yes there is the argument that sometimes the business covers those costs but we all know that that has to come to an end some time or no business. In the end the customer, not the owner or shareholders pay all the expenses, salaries etc. of that business. Sure the owner puts up the money (himself, shareholders, banks), but he also e3xepcts to get that back with profits or he wouldn't do it. Should customers be mad if the employees get a raise, if the owner (shareholders) increase their profits. Should they demand the owner takes less and drops their prices.

Money, taxes or whatever are not just given to government. Every person in Canada gets something from the government for the money they pay into it. We get roads, health care, pensions, welfare, infastructure. The majority of us probably get many more benefits than we actually directly pay for.

[Smurf]

I hear what you're saying westside and agree. However we have to remember that those awesome jobs are available to anyone, they aren't just there for select people. Just like is said many times on these theads anyone can get the education, training or whatever and get these jobs if they are so awesome. I personally do not agree agree with that theory because I feel everyone is different and those options are not open to all of us. I am just saying that, that is the feeling of many.

[WhatThe]

I don't suppose it would have occurred to you that perhaps your contract was just a little too sweet before? Too many sick days and holiday days, too many benefits you got for nothing, too many perks, too much money?

Man, is there anything you can't find fault with gramma? Nurses earn every damned penny because it certainly sounds like you've really never needed one. I could be wrong but then that would make you a little callous.

[WhatThe]

I really hate when people pull out their "I pay your salary/benefits/whatever" cards.

No kidding

[WhatThe]

I don't know about the rest of you but there's really only two things I pay taxes for, healthcare and education. If myself or family can't have respectable access to either its absolutely pointless. The last thing I want as a taxpayer is to be laying in a hospital bed and have nurses that are "poor", bitter and burnt out looking after me, or the same with the staff that sterilize (imagine that, superbugs are rampant because of inadequate cleaning already).

When one is dependent on health services the last thing one will say is that they are paid too much.

[Smurf]

I agree What The that those are the important one but we also have to remember our infastructure etc. When you think about it our taxes at different levels pay for hundreds of things we use on a regular basis and never think about. Our public services are an extremelly important part of our every day lives whether we realize it or not. Health care being one of the most important ones. And as was pointed out earlier it actually comes pretty cheap although it never seems like it.

[ixler8]

I don't know about the rest of you but there's really only two things I pay taxes for, healthcare and education. If myself or family can't have respectable access to either its absolutely pointless. The last thing I want as a taxpayer is to be laying in a hospital bed and have nurses that are "poor", bitter and burnt out looking after me, or the same with the staff that sterilize (imagine that, superbugs are rampant because of inadequate cleaning already).

When one is dependent on health services the last thing one will say is that they are paid too much.

Do you really believe that money cures bitter and burnt out ? An attitude adjustment / retraining is the cure , and if that does not work , then they should be let go . I see way too many civil servants who are burnt out and bitter and it's time for a career change , but they would rather be bitter for the next 15 year to stay in the union . And put the publics safety at risk.
We need to start testing all public employees for their abilities , life styles and attitudes , and clean house on all levels to remove the dead wood.

[Verminator]

I wonder if any of the negative commenters here know that the health authorities in this province occupy entire office buildings in Kelowna, Vancouver and Victoria, and probably other cities as well. They're filled with hundreds if not thousands of highly paid non-union suits, most of which I'll bet have never even seen the inside of a hospital. For a change, maybe we should look at what the bloated health authority bureaucracies are costing us, but of course that'll never happen. It's always easier to blame the little guy and gal.

[grammafreddy]

I don't know about the rest of you but there's really only two things I pay taxes for, healthcare and education. If myself or family can't have respectable access to either its absolutely pointless. The last thing I want as a taxpayer is to be laying in a hospital bed and have nurses that are "poor", bitter and burnt out looking after me, or the same with the staff that sterilize (imagine that, superbugs are rampant because of inadequate cleaning already).

When one is dependent on health services the last thing one will say is that they are paid too much.

So are you saying that if we pay them more the nurses will be less burnt out? Paying them more will somehow magically fix the 12-hour shifts? Paying them more will lighten their work load?

Are you also saying that if we pay the cleaning staff more they will clean better? The superbugs will respect them more and stay out of our hospitals because the staff gets paid more dollars? The more dollars in wages and better perks and pensions will somehow train the cleaning staff better and provide more of what they need to keep the hospitals more germ-free?

I don't suppose it would have occurred to you that perhaps your contract was just a little too sweet before? Too many sick days and holiday days, too many benefits you got for nothing, too many perks, too much money?

Man, is there anything you can't find fault with gramma? Nurses earn every damned penny because it certainly sounds like you've really never needed one. I could be wrong but then that would make you a little callous.

I very rarely have needed to access health care in the hospitals but when I do, I sure hope the ones looking after my care are alert and paying attention to little details and I sure don't see how they can be after working a 12-hour shift especially if it has been a busy shift for them. They are tired and just want to go home. IMO they should not be required to work anything beyond an 8-hour shift but here we are requiring them to work 12's and then add additional overtime to that or another 12 hour shift without adequate rest time between shifts.

Correct me if I am wrong ... the unions here with this strike action involve more than just hospital nurses - right?

And it isn't just wages we're talking, either - right?

Wouldn't it be better to train more people to do this work so that the workers now don't have to work 12-hour shifts and so there are more bodies to do the work required? Wouldn't more workers do the job better when staff is not so pressured to do more than what they truly can get done in a shift? Wouldn't more mattresses get sanitized, more toilets get cleaned, more corners get scrubbed, more operating equipment get sterilized?

Wouldn't it make more sense to add to the numbers of nurses and care-givers so that patients get more than a 5-minute assessment and a more thorough treatment plan? Wouldn't it be better to have adequate nurses and doctors staffing an adequate number of operating rooms and hospital beds so that wait times were not so long? Wouldn't it be an improvement if old folks homes were staffed in such a way that our seniors had consistent good care instead of being strapped into their beds and wheelchairs and "parked" because staff was too busy and rushed to look after them properly?

And wouldn't it be smarter to open up more seats in the universities and teaching hospitals so that more Canadians can be trained to do these jobs?

Trimming bureaucratic numbers at the top would add more bucks to the system for front-line delivery of care to the people. That part of the system is broken and highly inflated with big-buck salaries, benefits and pensions. That money would do more good on the front line and needs to be assessed and re-evaluated for efficiencies and effectiveness.

Paying more in wages and benefits and pensions to existing staff is not going to fix anything. Staff will be just as exhausted, just as poorly trained and wait times to get appointments and necessary surgeries will be just as long.

[W105]

WOW...well said Grammafreddy

[Verminator]

I agree too, well, mostly. But c'mon gramma, all these things will cost more, and apparently no one here wants that. And what about the mantra that we hear over and over again from CEOs to Deputy ministers in the provincial government that you have to pay top dollar to attract the best people? Oh, I forgot - that only applys to them...

I've worked in the health sytem for almost 40 years and I've seen management incompetence and waste that would never, and I mean NEVER, be tolerated anywhere else. A few years ago, it was decided that our hospital would be wired for a personal communication system that didn't work from the very beginning. Everyone knew it and everyone complained, but management didn't get the message until well over $500,000 was basically thrown out the window. That's just one of many, many examples and by no means the worst. This kind of crap goes on every day but no one seems to mind. Another 50 cents an hour for a cleaner or a care aide is so much more wasteful after all.

[grammafreddy]

I agree too, well, mostly. But c'mon gramma, all these things will cost more, and apparently no one here wants that. And what about the mantra that we hear over and over again from CEOs to Deputy ministers in the provincial government that you have to pay top dollar to attract the best people? Oh, I forgot - that only applys to them...

I've worked in the health sytem for almost 40 years and I've seen management incompetence and waste that would never, and I mean NEVER, be tolerated anywhere else. A few years ago, it was decided that our hospital would be wired for a personal communication system that didn't work from the very beginning. Everyone knew it and everyone complained, but management didn't get the message until well over $500,000 was basically thrown out the window. That's just one of many, many examples and by no means the worst. This kind of crap goes on every day but no one seems to mind. Another 50 cents an hour for a cleaner or a care aide is so much more wasteful after all.

I think you just proved my point ... the system is broken and stuffed at the top. There's too much waste and that waste stems from the top. An overhaul and assessment is way past due and the front line is not where cuts need to be made.

However, 50 cents an hour for existing staff will not improve anything that's wrong with the delivery system. It could just give the elitists more of an excuse to trim more workers without fixing anything - and that would create even harsher working conditions for those who are left standing, which, of course, creates more of a risk to the public and longer line-ups for less care.

[Rwede]

Some people, such as most of our politicians, have options to receiving health care in BC.

Yes, NDPers like Jack Layton who used private clinics are the beneficiaries of the two-tiered system.

Another greedy union looking to hold the sick people of the province hostage while they unrealistically demand more and more and more. Time to decertify all public sector employees and take the union out of our hospital rooms.

[Jeckle]

Do you really believe that money cures bitter and burnt out ? An attitude adjustment / retraining is the cure , and if that does not work , then they should be let go . I see way too many civil servants who are burnt out and bitter and it's time for a career change , but they would rather be bitter for the next 15 year to stay in the union . And put the publics safety at risk.
We need to start testing all public employees for their abilities , life styles and attitudes , and clean house on all levels to remove the dead wood.

I work 8 hour shifts, not bitter, nor worn out (well..a little sore sometimes, but age may be a factor) Never a lost minute due to injury (just thought I would throw that in)
Nurses have settled their contract I think. Different union than mine.
As for testing employees, I work in housekeeping, foods and laundry. We have people that come watch us and test us. They watch our hand washing and test our cleaning with white gloves and swabs. It's all public record. Google healthcare audits. There should be info on handwashing (I believe housekeepers have best scores) as well as cleaning (my hospital rates highest in VIHA for large facilities) audit scores.
We also had the best results for least amount of hospital aquired infection. This is all public record stuff if people care to look.