BC health care workers vote to strike

[grammafreddy]

I really hate when people pull out their "I pay your salary/benefits/whatever" cards.

pssst ... close your eyes.

I don't know why anyone would "hate" that ... I think it is important to keep things in perspective and people should know where their paycheques are coming from - and where they are going.

Some people think if government is paying for something that there is a money tree or a bottomless pit and can just keep spending and spending without any thought to who actually is doing the paying.

Lots of people work for wages and have no benefits and pay 100% of their own costs and pension plans - plus they also pay for any public employee's wages, benefits and pension.

[SmokeOnTheWater]

If I have to go to the hospital for an operation or if I'm having a baby or if I'm in an accident and am injured and have to stay at the hospital for weeks, who pays for that ?
Will everyone be upset at me because YOU are paying for it.
Hmmm ....

i might be if you started demanding a private room and a free phone etc.

If you have any need for an hospital stay, I will be upset at you, even if you are not demanding a private room and a free phone. After all I'm paying for it.

[Captain Awesome]

and its incorrect?
who pays government employee's wages?

And, it's somewhat correct - you do pay their wages.

When people say "I pay your wages", they act like it gives them the right to have say in how the system is run - how the wages are distributed, how the hospitals work, how the justice system operates, or what color are the buses. Just because some money leaves paycheck and funds social services doesn't mean people have the intelligence or experience to have say in it. I mean, everybody is entitled to an opinion, but you don't have to be a tax payer to have one.

The amount people pay in taxes is quite low. If an average person makes say a million bucks over their lifetime, that's only 100,000 or so in income taxes (for simplicity let's only focus on income taxes). Well, that's not even one year's salary for an experienced teacher or nurse after all expenses and overtime. Yet people feel they have a say in pretty much everything the govt does. Sorry, but the contribution simply doesn't justify it. Which also brings up another point - if some corporation pays 100x more than your income tax, should the said corporation have 100x more input?

And lastly, it's not like people pay it voluntarily. If it was up to them, we wouldn't have hospitals, roads or schools. Paying for something on the other hand is a voluntarily gesture.

I'm not saying all of this to argue over how much one pays in taxes, I'm just saying people should lay off their "I pay their wages" mantra. The amount of taxes paid by an average citizen in a year is probably not even enough to install a traffic light in most cities. Yet any individual who ever had even $1 taken from his paycheck in taxes feels he/she has the right no endlessly shout "I pay for it! I pay for it!"

[GrooveTunes]

Their worth every penny! Hope they get a good settlement.

[keith1612]

and its incorrect?
who pays government employee's wages?

And, it's somewhat correct - you do pay their wages.

When people say "I pay your wages", they act like it gives them the right to have say in how the system is run - how the wages are distributed, how the hospitals work, how the justice system operates, or what color are the buses. Just because some money leaves paycheck and funds social services doesn't mean people have the intelligence or experience to have say in it. I mean, everybody is entitled to an opinion, but you don't have to be a tax payer to have one.

The amount people pay in taxes is quite low. If an average person makes say a million bucks over their lifetime, that's only 100,000 or so in income taxes (for simplicity let's only focus on income taxes). Well, that's not even one year's salary for an experienced teacher or nurse after all expenses and overtime. Yet people feel they have a say in pretty much everything the govt does. Sorry, but the contribution simply doesn't justify it. Which also brings up another point - if some corporation pays 100x more than your income tax, should the said corporation have 100x more input?

And lastly, it's not like people pay it voluntarily. If it was up to them, we wouldn't have hospitals, roads or schools. Paying for something on the other hand is a voluntarily gesture.

I'm not saying all of this to argue over how much one pays in taxes, I'm just saying people should lay off their "I pay their wages" mantra. The amount of taxes paid by an average citizen in a year is probably not even enough to install a traffic light in most cities. Yet any individual who ever had even $1 taken from his paycheck in taxes feels he/she has the right no endlessly shout "I pay for it! I pay for it!"

I suppose thats no different than the way we feel when every 3 months we see another government union cry for wage increases and say "no this has nothing to do with taxpayers money"
lol its just more benefits or more sick days or its ummm bonuses but not wage increases.
we get sick of hearing that every few months also.

[grammafreddy]

My dander gets up when what they are asking for is unrealistic. In a world where many non-union workers have not seen increases in quite some time, unions always seem to start off their negotiations with huge double-digit amounts, plus increases in their days off, paid sick days, holidays and paid compassionate leave for when their cousin's neighbour's dog dies.

The cost of living (meaning basic necessities not wish things) goes up for everybody, not just unionized workers. In times like now when so many people are either unemployed or under-employed, it means fewer people are footing the bill for paying public employees' wages, benefits and pensions.

I honestly think that some public payroll people have no concept of where their paycheck comes from. They seem to think "government" has this endless supply of money with which to pay them and that "government" is a big bad meanie for not giving them what they want.

[TJ05]

My dander gets up when what they are asking for is unrealistic. In a world where many non-union workers have not seen increases in quite some time, unions always seem to start off their negotiations with huge double-digit amounts, plus increases in their days off, paid sick days, holidays and paid compassionate leave for when their cousin's neighbour's dog dies.

The cost of living (meaning basic necessities not wish things) goes up for everybody, not just unionized workers. In times like now when so many people are either unemployed or under-employed, it means fewer people are footing the bill for paying public employees' wages, benefits and pensions.

I honestly think that some public payroll people have no concept of where their paycheck comes from. They seem to think "government" has this endless supply of money with which to pay them and that "government" is a big bad meanie for not giving them what they want.

Do you even know what they are asking for? Your so quick to judge. I would like to see if it was you that went to school to learn your trade and have your wages getting less and less. By the way....what do you do for a living?

[noneofyourbiz3]

They're gonna be working their butts off soon enough for it.
https://sites.google.com/site/fukushimareport/
http://www.agreenroadblog.com/
http://www.straight.com/article-415211/ ... -spikes-bc
http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread692717/pg1
http://www.enviroreporter.com/2012/10/r ... -c-canada/

[grammafreddy]

Do you even know what they are asking for? Your so quick to judge. I would like to see if it was you that went to school to learn your trade and have your wages getting less and less. By the way....what do you do for a living?

I was talking in government-paid employee generalities. Yes, I am quick to judge. We all are - look how fast you jumped in to judge me! I don't think you are allowed to ask me what I do for a living on this forum.

Yours is not the only job that has wages reduced and is getting less and less. What about the private sector guy who works for less than you do and is also getting less and less - and having to cough out for your more and more from his less and less? Doesn't he count, too? Is it just fine and dandy that he gets to take home less because government pays you more and you get benefits and paid days and a nice pension that he doesn't get but he funds yours? How does that equate to anything fair in your little world? Is it fair that his kids might have to go without so that your kids can have government paid (taxpayer paid) perks?

Or do government-paid people even think of those kinds of things?

[Jeckle]

I was talking in government-paid employee generalities. Yes, I am quick to judge. We all are - look how fast you jumped in to judge me! I don't think you are allowed to ask me what I do for a living on this forum.

Yours is not the only job that has wages reduced and is getting less and less. What about the private sector guy who works for less than you do and is also getting less and less - and having to cough out for your more and more from his less and less? Doesn't he count, too? Is it just fine and dandy that he gets to take home less because government pays you more and you get benefits and paid days and a nice pension that he doesn't get but he funds yours? How does that equate to anything fair in your little world? Is it fair that his kids might have to go without so that your kids can have government paid (taxpayer paid) perks?

Or do government-paid people even think of those kinds of things?

I am just one, and yes I think of these things. I simply can't sign on to lose more money per paycheque because Joe Public may also make less money this year.
I am a taxpayer, and know that taxes fund my wages and benefits. I am also a mother that has two kids to feed and hopefully put through university so they don't end up one of the bottom feeding pigs. (that was rude-whoever said that)

btw, at the bargaining table our wage "demands" were 1% for the first year and COL (cost of living) for second year. Hardly double digits. I did know for certain that they would never go for a COL increase, but a nice little 1% and 1% or even 1% and nil would have made me happy.
Net zero wasn't even offered afaik.

[Jeckle]

yes i guess you have a point, because they are the smallest pigs at the trough its ok.

I've tried to find a breakdown of where our healthcare dollars go and see what percentage accounts for us little pigs (again-rude).
Maybe someone with better skills than I have can find that, if it actually exists.

[Jeckle]

Things like this happen in order to save money. Where does that money go? Does the medical care actually get better?
http://www.globaltvbc.com/families+meet ... story.html

When VIHA contracted out most of the support services on the South island they were supposed to save millions of dollars. Did they? I don't remember Gordon Campbell tooting his own horn about the millions saved.
I do remember massive C-diff outbreaks in Nanaimo. How does that make care better? How does that save money?
edit: quick google search brough up this recent article.
http://m.theglobeandmail.com/news/briti ... ice=mobile

[keith1612]

yes i guess you have a point, because they are the smallest pigs at the trough its ok.

I've tried to find a breakdown of where our healthcare dollars go and see what percentage accounts for us little pigs (again-rude).
Maybe someone with better skills than I have can find that, if it actually exists.

its quite simple, as other people in the real world are tightening their belts and trying to be more cost effective in todays market you ask for more.
1% 2% no big deal to you, all these 2% raises add up fast.
so we give you 2% then shouldnt we get a 2% raise?
oh wait then you will want 4% as cost of living went up.
where the dollars all fit into the piece of pie dont really matter, stop asking for more.
what part of net zero confuses union workers?
fine you want a raise then you lose somewhere else, you cant expect it all.

[Jeckle]

Oh man- I shouldn't have read that article.

In raising this issue … he should do his homework,” said Mr. de Jong, without citing any numbers. The Health Minister also offered some advice: “Be fair and be clear about what some of the assigned causes for those deaths were, and how the germ was brought into the hospital. That’s all I’ll say about that.” Mr. de Jong then moved on to other matters.

Doesn't matter how the "germ" came into the hospital. Obviously someone walked in with it (duh).
Once identified, the patient gets isolated and special cleaning procedures get set into place. Well trained cleaning staff know how to do this.
I'd love to have a "take a Health Minister to work day" lol

Anyways....time to wake the kidlettes. have a good day all.

[Smurf]

To start with I want say I have never figured out whether or not these health care workers need more or less because I don't know exactly what they make. I do know that I consider a living wage higher than many people on here.

I just want to look at things a bit different for a moment. Every time I or any customer walk into a private business of any sort and buy something we pay a portion of the salary of every employee in that business. We pay for the owners expenses, profit, retirement fund, home, car, yacht, shareholders profit, you name it. Without us none of that would exist. Do people think the business's money gows on trees or comes from fairy dust and unicorn farts or that the owner just magically has all this money and pays it out of the goodness of his heart.

Therefore based on the arguments many put forth here I want a say on how every business I pay for is run. I want a say on the profits the owners and share holders make. I want to be able to say if the banks or oil companies can increase their profits 100's of millions or dollars or give us a break in our fuel or banking costs.

I'm sure government employees would like a say in the salaries of the employees, managers and CEO's of companies that they pay for every time they spend money in that store.

Does anyone see the similarity I am trying to point out here. Without taxpayers there woiuld be no government. Without customers there would be no business. Basically we all pay the expenses of both as a cost of goods, services or whatever, that we recieve.