Castanet

You can tell Richard knows little or nothing about unions other than his hatred. In all my years in a union I had an evaluation every single year. For the last number of years I had to write my own copy and then take it to my manager where we sat down and compared it to the one he wrote. Those evaluations stayed in my file forever and if I applied for a better position or a position in another area of the company they were one of the first things reviewed. I could not get a promotion if I had bad reviews but I certainly could have gotten a demotion and as was said earlier could have been dismissed. I saw people dismissed and as a union rep I was actually involved in more than one dismisal.

^^ Your experience pretty well mirrors mine. I was a union rep for years and was involved in many dismissals. I can recall less than a handful that were reversed, the employer won out in almost all of them bacause they were well prepared and had more than enough documentation to prove their case. Nowadays you almost need to be caught raping a patient before management does anything, and that's not because they can't. They won't because they don't care, it's as simple as that.

Smurf wrote:You can tell Richard knows little or nothing about unions other than his hatred. In all my years in a union I had an evaluation every single year. For the last number of years I had to write my own copy and then take it to my manager where we sat down and compared it to the one he wrote. Those evaluations stayed in my file forever and if I applied for a better position or a position in another area of the company they were one of the first things reviewed. I could not get a promotion if I had bad reviews but I certainly could have gotten a demotion and as was said earlier could have been dismissed. I saw people dismissed and as a union rep I was actually involved in more than one dismisal.

These are true, I think the point he wants to make though is you take 2 employees and they do the reviews. Employee one gets a gold sticker review and congratulated.

Employee 2 really just gets through it by the skin of his teeth.

You both receive the same 2% raise. Why shouldn't you receive 3.5% and he get 0.5%.

That's a massive fault of unions. I think there deserves to be a pay range, inside the pay scale, because even though they say "everyone in equal", everyone simply isn't equal.

Veovis wrote:

Smurf wrote:You can tell Richard knows little or nothing about unions other than his hatred. In all my years in a union I had an evaluation every single year. For the last number of years I had to write my own copy and then take it to my manager where we sat down and compared it to the one he wrote. Those evaluations stayed in my file forever and if I applied for a better position or a position in another area of the company they were one of the first things reviewed. I could not get a promotion if I had bad reviews but I certainly could have gotten a demotion and as was said earlier could have been dismissed. I saw people dismissed and as a union rep I was actually involved in more than one dismisal.

These are true, I think the point he wants to make though is you take 2 employees and they do the reviews. Employee one gets a gold sticker review and congratulated.

Employee 2 really just gets through it by the skin of his teeth.

You both receive the same 2% raise. Why shouldn't you receive 3.5% and he get 0.5%.

That's a massive fault of unions. I think there deserves to be a pay range, inside the pay scale, because even though they say "everyone in equal", everyone simply isn't equal.

Bingo! And that's why unions are a ball and chain for the better employees who deserve so much more than the rest.

That opens the door wide to all kinds of abuse, from simple favoritism to sexual blackmail, 'you sleep with me, the manager, and I'll give you a nice raise or I'll fire you if you don't'. If you think that doesn't happen you're living on another planet. Playing off one employee against another because they're getting paid differently for doing the same job will just do wonders for the workplace, eh? If an employee excels at a particular job, reward him or her with a promotion or pay for an upgrading course. Problem solved.

Verminator wrote:That opens the door wide to all kinds of abuse, from simple favoritism to sexual blackmail, 'you sleep with me, the manager, and I'll give you a nice raise or I'll fire you if you don't'. If you think that doesn't happen you're living on another planet. Playing off one employee against another because they're getting paid differently for doing the same job will just do wonders for the workplace, eh? If an employee excels at a particular job, reward him or her with a promotion. Problem solved.

Why isn't it a problem in non-union environments, where job satisfaction is higher than in union environments? Oh damn, sorry I posted that nasty bit of logic for you.

Verminator wrote:That opens the door wide to all kinds of abuse, from simple favoritism to sexual blackmail, 'you sleep with me, the manager, and I'll give you a nice raise or I'll fire you if you don't'. If you think that doesn't happen you're living on another planet.

That happens already regardless so what's your point? There's tons of abuse rampant within the union environment, nepotism ranking fairly high from my observations.

People who prove themselves worth more, should by all means be able to get more without, fear of repercussion from those who are underachievers, and opt to ride along on the coattails of those with a far better work ethic. It's how private enterprise works and rightly so.

Rwede wrote:

Verminator wrote:That opens the door wide to all kinds of abuse, from simple favoritism to sexual blackmail, 'you sleep with me, the manager, and I'll give you a nice raise or I'll fire you if you don't'. If you think that doesn't happen you're living on another planet. Playing off one employee against another because they're getting paid differently for doing the same job will just do wonders for the workplace, eh? If an employee excels at a particular job, reward him or her with a promotion. Problem solved.

Why isn't it a problem in non-union environments, where job satisfaction is higher than in union environments? Oh damn, sorry I posted that nasty bit of logic for you.

Can you provide that information. Thanks.

Yes, it happens everywhere. At least in a union environment there are fewer opportunities for managers to behave in this fashion and more redress available to the victims. I've personally been involved in grievances in these kinds of situations and they're not pretty, the victims are often traumatized to the point they can't come back to work even if they want to. Without the union to provide at least some protection and support, the victims wouldn't likely have come forward in the first place.

Verminator wrote:That opens the door wide to all kinds of abuse, from simple favoritism to sexual blackmail, 'you sleep with me, the manager, and I'll give you a nice raise or I'll fire you if you don't'. If you think that doesn't happen you're living on another planet. Playing off one employee against another because they're getting paid differently for doing the same job will just do wonders for the workplace, eh? If an employee excels at a particular job, reward him or her with a promotion or pay for an upgrading course. Problem solved.

Said the employee who got by by the skin of their teeth I take it.

What over the top doomsaying. Why should some employees get paid more more the same job? Well because they are better at the same job, get better results on the same job, are more efficient on the same job, are less careless and cost the company less money on the same job, and overall aren't a crap employee so they deserve more than the employees that are crap but can't be removed because, ha ha, union.

Rwede wrote:http://www.hrsolutionsinc.com/enews_0311/Unionized_0311.html

The last sentence on this page:
'By staying ahead of the curve and truly caring about employees, organizations can minimize their risk of unionization.'

Therein lies the crux of the matter - the HA's DON'T care about their employees, they are treated as disposable commodities more often than not.That is especially true in the support sectors such as housekeeping or laundry services. Some HA's are worse than others, but I don't know of one that meets the above description, certainly not IH.

Verminator wrote:

Rwede wrote:http://www.hrsolutionsinc.com/enews_0311/Unionized_0311.html

The last sentence on this page:
'By staying ahead of the curve and truly caring about employees, organizations can minimize their risk of unionization.'

Therein lies the crux of the matter - the HA's DON'T care about their employees, they are treated as disposable commodities more often than not.That is especially true in the support sectors such as housekeeping or laundry services. Some HA's are worse than others, but I don't know of one that meets the above description, certainly not IH.

Despite what I think of unions, I will agree with you on that count. Unions and employers usually get the counterpart they deserve

T

hese are true, I think the point he wants to make though is you take 2 employees and they do the reviews. Employee one gets a gold sticker review and congratulated.

Employee 2 really just gets through it by the skin of his teeth.

You both receive the same 2% raise. Why shouldn't you receive 3.5% and he get 0.5%.

That's a massive fault of unions. I think there deserves to be a pay range, inside the pay scale, because even though they say "everyone in equal", everyone simply isn't equal.

Management CAN reward an exceptional worker any way they wish, be it a bonus, more money tacked onto their paycheque or whatever perks they deem appropriate (car, time off, etc); however, they would much sooner give the bare minimum. And they do.

NO they can't because if a bonus was given to one employee and not another it can be grieved since it was an "unfair salary" and they are "all equal"

I've met employers who seriously wish they could give out a Christmas bonus still, but can't. The union would instantly demand dues on it, and that all other employees receive an "equal amount" as you know "everyone is equal", except they aren't and that isn't in the budget so no one can get one.

Union motto though, protect the bad employee, don't reward the good, and blame the employer for it all.