Castanet

Captain Awesome wrote:

Alvis wrote:Right...and that is why we have some many jobs in our area that pay much more, correct?
It is a fantasy world to believe that $10/hr jobs are only for "students, youth workers, part time gigs for extra income, etc " and I am sure the people trapped in these jobs would love for you to tell them the good news.

The good news that yes, we do have jobs that pay more - if you have experience, finished school, got some certification, signed up for a trade. That's how life works - you start at the bottom and you move up. You don't stay at the bottom forever. Even Tim Hortons allows people to advance to management position - with experience.

It's a fantasy to believe that the bottom of the barrel jobs are supposed to provide you and your family into retirement. They never did, and never will. I'm surprised this is news to somebody.

Ah the classic "experience needed" caveat.
How does one gain experience if nobody will give them a jobbecausee they lack experience?
I remember some time ago, as a 19 year old apprentice who had graduated WITH HONOURS being denied 1st year apprentice jobs one after another because I "lacked experience" I recal seeing adds that wanted "1st year apprentice, 4 years experience."
A friend of mine was recently refused a job becasue she lacked "experience" despite having been in her field for 1 year, having an excellent college record and being damned good at what she did. How dare somebody sit behind a desk and say that kind of stuff? At some point, these people who deny young people a job due to "lack of experience" were at one time, themselves inexperienced!

Sometimes people need to take a part-time job in their field to gain experience or possibly volunteer some time to get a foot in.

Alvis wrote:Ah the classic "experience needed" caveat.
How does one gain experience if nobody will give them a jobbecausee they lack experience?
I remember some time ago, as a 19 year old apprentice who had graduated WITH HONOURS being denied 1st year apprentice jobs one after another because I "lacked experience" I recal seeing adds that wanted "1st year apprentice, 4 years experience."
A friend of mine was recently refused a job becasue she lacked "experience" despite having been in her field for 1 year, having an excellent college record and being damned good at what she did. How dare somebody sit behind a desk and say that kind of stuff? At some point, these people who deny young people a job due to "lack of experience" were at one time, themselves inexperienced!

yes it's a tough world out there. We all have been through it, at least those of us who have got off our duffs and tried to get real jobs after seeking higher education. It is frustrating and hard sometimes to find someone to give us a chance, and when we find someone willing to do it, we should be and usually are eternally grateful to those who decided to take that chance and believe in us. Going around to these said employers with a massive chip on your shoulder clinging determinedly to the misguided assumption that the world owes you a job and/or living, is a sure step to failure, which is why leftists continue to beat that loser drum.

no one says the world owes anyone anything . i havnt applied for a job for years . i had to start my own business .. now ive put myself thru some college .. there is no future in working for someone in kelowna . all the employers here r real cheap as evidenced by how many of u shameful scum bags support the owner of the timmies up north who this thread is dedicated to . so in closing shame on all of u that support this corporate bs and do your best to keep real folks down just so u can have more for yourself .

Artofthedeal wrote:

Alvis wrote:Ah the classic "experience needed" caveat.
How does one gain experience if nobody will give them a jobbecausee they lack experience?
I remember some time ago, as a 19 year old apprentice who had graduated WITH HONOURS being denied 1st year apprentice jobs one after another because I "lacked experience" I recal seeing adds that wanted "1st year apprentice, 4 years experience."
A friend of mine was recently refused a job becasue she lacked "experience" despite having been in her field for 1 year, having an excellent college record and being damned good at what she did. How dare somebody sit behind a desk and say that kind of stuff? At some point, these people who deny young people a job due to "lack of experience" were at one time, themselves inexperienced!

yes it's a tough world out there. We all have been through it, at least those of us who have got off our duffs and tried to get real jobs after seeking higher education. It is frustrating and hard sometimes to find someone to give us a chance, and when we find someone willing to do it, we should be and usually are eternally grateful to those who decided to take that chance and believe in us. Going around to these said employers with a massive chip on your shoulder clinging determinedly to the misguided assumption that the world owes you a job and/or living, is a sure step to failure, which is why leftists continue to beat that loser drum.

What kind of sassumption is that? Why do good people get sent away? Well they are preceived as a threat to managers to begin with. Hire somebody smarter/more confident/etc than yourself and sure enough you WILL feel threatened.
People are told they need education work hard get good grades then they get out and can't get a job becasue they lack experience. Sure blame the individual again. All hiring managers are kind, good people who only want the best.

Alvis wrote:How does one gain experience if nobody will give them a job because they lack experience?

Sure, some employers won't hire without experience. Others will. Somebody said no to you? Ask someone else. Your friend was refused one job? Well, I bet that wasn't the only job left in the world. The truth is most people hire people based on attitude, work ethics, and recommendations. Can you gain those working at Tim Hortons? You bet. Can you move up from Tim Hortons job to something of better pay and higher quality of life? Of course you can. You can even move up into Tim Hortons management - if you really like working there that is.

Don't be a defeatist. Giving up after the first (fifth, tenth, etc) refusal is not an appropriate behavior - at least it doesn't speak well about your attitude in life. I know countless examples of people succeeding without experience, without fancy school degrees, without somebody calling them and offering that high paying job that they "deserve" on the spot. If you want to cling to the examples of people who gave up after refusal and singing the old "Oh, nobody can get ahead, you will always be broke unless you're born into money, life isn't fair" tune - that's the problem of your perspective, and doesn't truly represent the reality.

Alvis wrote:What kind of sassumption is that? Why do good people get sent away? Well they are preceived as a threat to managers to begin with. Hire somebody smarter/more confident/etc than yourself and sure enough you WILL feel threatened.
People are told they need education work hard get good grades then they get out and can't get a job becasue they lack experience. Sure blame the individual again. All hiring managers are kind, good people who only want the best.

ah...yes...some good people get sent away. That's called "life". It is to the detriment of businesses if they turn good people away, but such is the way it is. You can sulk and cry and blame the "system", or you can pull yourself up, and keep trying. Winners never quit, and quitters never win. That's the way it is.

keith1612 wrote:
lol im doing it because my house is packed to move, bought a house in Alberta.
no i had a business and could afford life.
how many cant?

There you go Keith, supply and demand in action. Move to where the jobs are and workers with your skill set are needed. Life is full of choices and you've made yours. Enjoy the winter and when the pendulum swings back the other way I'm sure we'll see you again. If not, oh well.

Alvis wrote:Ah the classic "experience needed" caveat.
How does one gain experience if nobody will give them a jobbecausee they lack experience?
I remember some time ago, as a 19 year old apprentice who had graduated WITH HONOURS being denied 1st year apprentice jobs one after another because I "lacked experience" I recal seeing adds that wanted "1st year apprentice, 4 years experience."
A friend of mine was recently refused a job becasue she lacked "experience" despite having been in her field for 1 year, having an excellent college record and being damned good at what she did. How dare somebody sit behind a desk and say that kind of stuff? At some point, these people who deny young people a job due to "lack of experience" were at one time, themselves inexperienced!

If you were a hiring manager and you had two candidates to choose from. One with real life experience and references to back them up or one straight out of school with no experience, which one would you hire? A good manager looks at the whole package, skill set, credentials, experience, personality etc and then makes the best hiring decision for them (unless of course its a Union job and then they hire their brother, but I digress). Sometimes you need to break into a company you want to work for by taking a job below your ability, show them your work ethic and then use your credentials to move into the position you really want.

keith1612 wrote:You should do a bit more research, competent orchard workers are paid $9.55 a hr
It's great you feel the answer to a successful business is pay workers low enough they need to have multiple people to pay rent or hire Mexicans.
I believe in a fair living wage not cheating workers into 12 he days with no overtime for pathetic pay.

Further to my original response to this post, I just finished speaking to a farm worker not less than 30 minutes ago, and since this thread was fresh in my mind, I asked him how much he earns as he just returned from picking grapes in the South Okanagan, the reply was $20hr. He made over $200 bucks today and informed me that he does so quite regularly as well.

I'd certainly call that a liveable wage even for the Okanagan.

I stand by what I said earlier, in that seasoned workers do make more than the $9.55 you'd have us believe they all make.

I'm hardly the one who needs to do research.

LoneWolf_53 wrote:

keith1612 wrote:You should do a bit more research, competent orchard workers are paid $9.55 a hr
It's great you feel the answer to a successful business is pay workers low enough they need to have multiple people to pay rent or hire Mexicans.
I believe in a fair living wage not cheating workers into 12 he days with no overtime for pathetic pay.

Further to my original response to this post, I just finished speaking to a farm worker not less than 30 minutes ago, and since this thread was fresh in my mind, I asked him how much he earns as he just returned from picking grapes in the South Okanagan, the reply was $20hr. He made over $200 bucks today and informed me that he does so quite regularly as well.

I'd certainly call that a liveable wage even for the Okanagan.

I stand by what I said earlier, in that seasoned workers do make more than the $9.55 you'd have us believe they all make.

I'm hardly the one who needs to do research.

hey please post where, i know lots of people who would happily pick fruit for $20 a hr.
and guess what they are in BC and white, strange those jobs arent advertised anywhere.

keith1612 wrote:hey please post where, i know lots of people who would happily pick fruit for $20 a hr.
and guess what they are in BC and white, strange those jobs arent advertised anywhere.

Of course they aren't advertised, the farmers that have good reliable workers tend to hang on to them. Is this a surprise to you?

Oh and FYI this fellow is also white and lives in BC.

LoneWolf_53 wrote:

keith1612 wrote:hey please post where, i know lots of people who would happily pick fruit for $20 a hr.
and guess what they are in BC and white, strange those jobs arent advertised anywhere.

Of course they aren't advertised, the farmers that have good reliable workers tend to hang on to them. Is this a surprise to you?

Oh and FYI this fellow is also white and lives in BC.

ohh i see they are the secret farmers that pay double the rest.
nice.
that must be the reason they hire mexicans, we dont know how to find the good ones.

You really are a funny guy.

First you spout off a bunch of generalizations about an industry you obviously know little about, and when someone shows you your assumptions are incorrect you have to resort to childish sarcasm. Bravo!

I actually know people in that industry, and for what it's worth smarty, there's no secrets involved. Many of the old timers appreciate seasoned workers, and pay them well enough to where they come back year after year. That translating into no need to advertise the job, as you seem a little ignorant of the concept.

I also happen to know that many of the wineries get their pickers by simple word of mouth, and references from existing staff.

Are there jobs that only pay $9.55 per hour, no doubt at all that there are, and given that there will always be unskilled workers, as well as bad employers, just as there are in every industry, that's not likely to change.

The point however, is that those who bothered to learn the skill, and prove themselves to the farmer as worthy, get compensated better, and are assured work every season. Not so different from many other lines of work actually.

Now I'm not about to go out of my way to locate the fellow I talked to earlier, just so I can get names and addresses, and no doubt pay stubs, just to appease a diehard whiner, so if you don't believe what I told you, it's all the same to me. I'm not going to lose any sleep due to your skepticism.

I'm sure there are those who know what I've said is true, and those same ones have likely got you pegged anyway.

LoneWolf_53 wrote:You really are a funny guy.

First you spout off a bunch of generalizations about an industry you obviously know little about, and when someone shows you your assumptions are incorrect you have to resort to childish sarcasm. Bravo!

I actually know people in that industry, and for what it's worth smarty, there's no secrets involved. Many of the old timers appreciate seasoned workers, and pay them well enough to where they come back year after year. That translating into no need to advertise the job, as you seem a little ignorant of the concept.

I also happen to know that many of the wineries get their pickers by simple word of mouth, and references from existing staff.

Are there jobs that only pay $9.55 per hour, no doubt at all that there are, and given that there will always be unskilled workers, as well as bad employers, just as there are in every industry, that's not likely to change.

The point however, is that those who bothered to learn the skill, and prove themselves to the farmer as worthy, get compensated better, and are assured work every season. Not so different from many other lines of work actually.

Now I'm not about to go out of my way to locate the fellow I talked to earlier, just so I can get names and addresses, and no doubt pay stubs, just to appease a diehard whiner, so if you don't believe what I told you, it's all the same to me. I'm not going to lose any sleep due to your skepticism.

I'm sure there are those who know what I've said is true, and those same ones have likely got you pegged anyway.

Wolf, I suspect that many pay the min wage of 9.55/hr as required by law as the base wage. It is the production incentive that allows the good workers to earn what your example answered in 20/hr. He probably worked 10 hrs, picked a shitload of buckets of grapes @ x$'s/bucket to make that 200 for the day. Money can be made picking but you have to be good and you have to be fast. The farmers are more than happy to pay for these guys because it gets the crop off fast to minimize losses to birds and desication. The 9.55 is only a legal min and you can be sure that if a slack azz isn't picking at least his min wage in grape value per hour, he won't be back in the morning.