Drunk driving deaths down by 46% in B.C.

[KL3-Something]

As for statistics, the VPD (Vancr Police) announced today that in the first week of Christmas Drinking and Driving roadblocks they nabbed 60 drivers.

In 2011 during the same first week, they nabbed only 45, so that's a 33% increase ! Interesting trend.

Interesting, and very explainable. Last year, 4 days into the first week of counterattack, the VPD (and all other police forces in BC) lost the IRP Fail as an option. The Sivia decision came down on a Thursday right before the first full weekend of the counterattack season. Therefore they were back to doing Impaired Driving investigations the old fashioned way. Taking more members off the road for longer periods of time leading to fewer drivers being stopped. Fewer drivers being stopped leads to fewer impaired drivers being "nabbed".

You also need to look at how many cops were out there pulling cars over. How many enhanced enforcement shifts were being funded and how they were filled. Raw numbers, when it comes to stats of how many of this or that were intercepted without reference to how much effort was being put forth, are really useless.

Simple, really.

[MAPearce]

What are the stats for "other" MV deaths ????

[crookedmember]

Stats from the US:

"According to Levitt's research (based on data from the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration), in the United States, there is just one arrest for every 27,000 miles driven while drunk."

Which suggests that relatively few drunk drivers are actually caught.

I doubt we'll see a news release next year if the rate jumps back up

[simnut]

Interesting, and very explainable. Last year, 4 days into the first week of counterattack, the VPD (and all other police forces in BC) lost the IRP Fail as an option. The Sivia decision came down on a Thursday right before the first full weekend of the counterattack season. Therefore they were back to doing Impaired Driving investigations the old fashioned way. Taking more members off the road for longer periods of time leading to fewer drivers being stopped. Fewer drivers being stopped leads to fewer impaired drivers being "nabbed".

You also need to look at how many cops were out there pulling cars over. How many enhanced enforcement shifts were being funded and how they were filled. Raw numbers, when it comes to stats of how many of this or that were intercepted without reference to how much effort was being put forth, are really useless.

Simple, really.

And my point proven exactly! More cop hours on the road is what is saving lives, not the new laws!!! The only thing the new laws do well, is allow more cop hours on the road. More impaired drivers are being caught......as it should be!

[simnut]

You just don't want to find any good in these new laws.

I love the fact that they allow more cop hours on the road.......THAT is the only good........

[KL3-Something]

Interesting, and very explainable. Last year, 4 days into the first week of counterattack, the VPD (and all other police forces in BC) lost the IRP Fail as an option. The Sivia decision came down on a Thursday right before the first full weekend of the counterattack season. Therefore they were back to doing Impaired Driving investigations the old fashioned way. Taking more members off the road for longer periods of time leading to fewer drivers being stopped. Fewer drivers being stopped leads to fewer impaired drivers being "nabbed".

You also need to look at how many cops were out there pulling cars over. How many enhanced enforcement shifts were being funded and how they were filled. Raw numbers, when it comes to stats of how many of this or that were intercepted without reference to how much effort was being put forth, are really useless.

Simple, really.

And my point proven exactly! More cop hours on the road is what is saving lives, not the new laws!!! The only thing the new laws do well, is allow more cop hours on the road. More impaired drivers are being caught......as it should be!

It's the new laws that ARE putting more cops on the road (or not taking them off the road) looking for impaired drivers.

[simnut]

It's the new laws that ARE putting more cops on the road (or not taking them off the road) looking for impaired drivers.

I agree, but I don't like what we give up to get to that point. We lose a fair (from the citizens point of view) appeal process.....one that should not allow the OSMV to be the judge and jury.

[diggerdick]

So as long as the numbers can be manipulated to look like the RCMP are doing their job correctly.
Using a poorly designed law , that takes away people's rights to protect themselves

The RCMP are happy

And the people that are not as easily conned and manipulated by propaganda must certainly be talk down to , And reprogramed . by means of a government paid forum plant.

[simnut]

"Were" hitting the news. Those are three reports from almost a year ago during the time when the IRP fails were suspended due to the Sivia decision. One week of data does not make a trend....But does make interesting news.

Then, how about this link:

http://www.slatervecchio.com/blog/2012/ ... inking-in/


Or this one:

http://www.vancouversun.com/news/Vancou ... story.html

I will add more as I find 'em, but these all lead to the fact that POLICING cuts down drunk driving deaths...NOT the fear of the laws!!! More are getting caught....thus PREVENTING drunk driving deaths! And these are "current" reports......


I also have a question..........

If more people are getting the hint and doing less driving and drinking, why do we need more police hours on the road to catch 'em?

If less people are driving drunk (because of fear of new laws), I wonder if the stats of impaired driving deaths would still drop with the same level of police hours "catching" 'em as in the previous years. My thinking is those stats wouldn't change.......

[Smurf]

But either way the laws are doing their job. Is that not what we want, more lives being saved?

[simnut]

But either way the laws are doing their job. Is that not what we want, more lives being saved?

No, it's NOT either way, the laws are doing their job!!! They ARE allowing more police officers on the road (a good thing), but they ALSO are eliminating a proper legal appeal process (a bad thing for the citizens)!!!! If we want to stop more drunk drivers on the road....increase police budgets and personnel.......yup....it's will cost us from our wallets...but we don't lose the legal aspect that we have (sorry, HAD) as being citizens of BC, and more importantly...Canada. I know, some of you that NEVER make mistakes or don't get involved in being wrongfully charged will like the laws...REGARDLESS of what it does to the appeals....but your time MAY come.

It is WRONG to use the premise that the laws are scaring people into NOT drinking and driving..when that is NOT the case at all!!! It is the presence of the police on the road, STOPPING them that is cutting down the drunk driving deaths. So basically......legal aspects of a recognized CRIMINAL act have been removed...but it is still a criminal act. Go figure.....

By the way, 24 hour prohibitions will reduce the impaired driving deaths as effectively as these new laws. Why? Because it is the "getting caught" part resulting of increased police presence ......it still gets the drunks off the road.....effectively...and keeps officers on the road!

[simnut]

Here are some interesting stats from a submission by RCMP Lower Mainland District BC regarding the intent and direction of Alexa's Team fighting impaired driving. The link for this .pdf is:

http://www.google.ca/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=i ... GE&cad=rja

Here are the goals of the team:

•To increase the level of public awareness of the drug and alcohol impaired driving
problem.
• To motivate all B.C. police officers to make impaired driving investigations a priority.
• To discourage impaired driving by increasing the public expectation of apprehension.
• To increase the number of impaired drivers detected and apprehended.
• To communicate to all levels of police management that impaired driving investigations
should be an operational priority and to encourage supervisors to provide police officers
with the time required to conduct a proper impaired driving investigation:smt023
• To discourage the use of 24 Hour Prohibitions and Administrative Driving Prohibitions as
alternatives to complete impaired driving investigations.
• To recognize the top impaired driving investigators, both internally and publicly.
• To engage road safety partners, including police, government and other agencies, in a
collective program to reduce impaired driving deaths and injuries. (except for the OSMV involvement at appeal level)

The two items I've marked in bold ARE the reason drunk driving deaths are going down in number.

Next:

In 2009 the Alexa’s Team Partnership was expanded to include all of British Columbia, both
R.C.M.P. and municipal police departments. The 175 members of the 2009 Alexa’s Team
removed 8,707 drinking drivers from the roadways of B.C. By 2010 the 225 members of Alexa’s
Team removed 8,616 drinking drivers from the roadways of B.C.

Note the increase in numbers of personnel devoted to the task, AND the increase of numbers being caught. Now read this:

Last year, the 339 members of Alexa’s Team removed 12,415 drinking drivers from the
roadways of B.C. Over a four year period and since its creation, the member of Alexa’s
Team removed 31,455 drinking drivers from the highways and communities of B.C.

Another MAJOR increase in both numbers!!!!

In 2011, the number of people killed by impaired driving in RCMP jurisdictions in B.C. has
dropped to a historical low of 74. Impaired driving enforcement has increased 74% from
2007 to 2011. More than 17,000 criminally-impaired drivers were removed from B.C.
highways and communities by all police officers in 2011. In the Lower Mainland of B.C.,
impaired driving fatalities decreased 50% from 2010 to 2011; from 36 to 18, saving 18
lives.

Take a look at the line I've underlined above..........

NOW....BEFORE you "do gooders", or ones that don't make mistakes or get wrongfully charged say anything......I LOVE these stats!!!!! THEY ARE DOING THE JOB!!!! (sorry about the yelling lol) These stats show that increased police presence and enforcement affect the drinking and driving deaths by "allowing" these drivers to get caught before they become part of the statistics! I know I know, the new laws ALLOW more police time on the road, but THAT comes at the WRONG price......

[Captain Awesome]

It also increases their efficiency - so instead of pulling one driver off the road, they can pull off 3 or five with the same manpower and effort.

Thumbs up.

[simnut]

It also increases their efficiency - so instead of pulling one driver off the road, they can pull off 3 or five with the same manpower and effort.

Thumbs up.

Thumbs up on that part....thumbs down on the administrative appeal process.....and that is a critical area.......IMHO.

[Glacier]

The B.C. government says a tough drunk driving law brought in two years ago has reduced the number of impaired driving deaths in the province by 46 per cent.

In other news, sober driving deaths are also down 46%. (I just made this up, so I can't vouch for its accuracy. Perhaps someone else can.)

My point is, this statistic is completely meaningless if they don't provide more details. They can't say they've saved 104 lives if there weren't 100 or so less deaths in total. Maybe it has saved 104 deaths, but they need to provide more details before their claim can be taken seriously.