BC gov's path to a 10-year contract with teachers

[logicalview]

And someone mentioned $40K starting salary like it was a lot of money. It is not. My sister is just getting started in that path and she can barely pay her bills on that salary - forget about student loan payments.

I'll never understand how people can choose a profession and then whine about how much they make after getting qualified. Do you not know, at least ballpark, what you are going to make going in, and adjust your standard of living accordingly? If the job doesn't pay enough, then go do something else!

[Tero]

boo hoo is right. lol. one of my best friends is a teacher. 10 years experience and last year's T4 read 83,000.00 income. Not too shabby for 5 years of university and the hard hard life of living in the Okanagan. Summers, Christmas, 2 weeks at Easter. Medical benefits that cant be compted with (how do y'all like 3 kids in braces at the same time? not coming out of their paycheque, the benefits cover it.) And a pension that can't be found anywhere else outside of politicians! He works his butt off and is a great teacher and deserves every penny of it too. That can't be said for a few of the other teachers I know!

We need to bust out the bctf union, get rid of it, and start hiring and paying teachers based on merit, dedication, effort, etc... kind of like the REAL WORLD!

lol, if you can't get by on a teacher's salary then you need a lesson in BUDGETING and living within your means.

[Woodenhead]

I am against removing the right to strike, regardless of which side wants what. (not taking sides on who's right or not here)

I'd rather ban corporate/organizational lobbying of government than ban striking.

Why not ban both? Why do you support the exploitation of children?

"exploitation of children" is both hyperbole & an appeal to emotion. Your second question in its entirety is severely loaded & a huge assumption. Try again.

Anyway, collective bargaining is internationally recognized as a fundamental human right. I agree, so I'm against having government stepping in & circumventing the process, even if I disagree with the union.

On a forum where I often see users trumpet "It's a privilege, not a right" to make the point the privileges are OK to take away while rights are not, I'm amused to see some of those same users flip-flop on this one.

[gardengirl]

The teachers (or rather their Unions) have always used the children as pawns.
Add to that, the BCTF prosyletizing which happens in the classroom. It's disgusting.

All this, while spewing "We are doing this for the children".
Really? Striking benefits the kids?

Paying teachers more benefits the kids? Really?
This one of the most ridiculous ones. They are NOT paid on MERIT.

"We want to attract the best and brightest."
Again...not paid on merit. Crappy teachers are paid as well as the good ones.

Programs are dropped to allow school districts to pay the wages and benefits the BCTF demands.
Budgets for activities are drastically cut so those monies can go to wages and benefits.

And this is for the kids.....right.

[Woodenhead]

All I see there is



There's no easy answer. But getting all emotional & grandstanding only makes things worse.

[LoneWolf_53]

boo hoo is right. lol. one of my best friends is a teacher. 10 years experience and last year's T4 read 83,000.00 income. Not too shabby for 5 years of university and the hard hard life of living in the Okanagan. Summers, Christmas, 2 weeks at Easter. Medical benefits that cant be compted with (how do y'all like 3 kids in braces at the same time? not coming out of their paycheque, the benefits cover it.) And a pension that can't be found anywhere else outside of politicians! He works his butt off and is a great teacher and deserves every penny of it too. That can't be said for a few of the other teachers I know!

We need to bust out the bctf union, get rid of it, and start hiring and paying teachers based on merit, dedication, effort, etc... kind of like the REAL WORLD!

lol, if you can't get by on a teacher's salary then you need a lesson in BUDGETING and living within your means.

Excellent post.

[Sn0man]

I'll never understand how people can choose a profession and then whine about how much they make after getting qualified. Do you not know, at least ballpark, what you are going to make going in, and adjust your standard of living accordingly? If the job doesn't pay enough, then go do something else!

I'm not following you logicalview - i'm not whining and neither is my sister (it's what she wanted to do, in spite of the pay). I was just pointing out that $40K is not a pile of cash like someone suggested.

Anyway, collective bargaining is internationally recognized as a fundamental human right. I agree, so I'm against having government stepping in & circumventing the process, even if I disagree with the union.

Yep, I agree.

[flamingfingers]

To get back on topic, Christy's '10-year contract' proposal is DOA now:

B.C. teachers bargaining framework approved
Agreement applies only to structure of bargaining , not any contract proposals
CBC News
Posted: Jan 26, 2013 11:59 AM PT
Last Updated: Jan 26, 2013 2:27 PM PT

The BC Teachers' Federation and its direct employer have approved a new bargaining framework for the next round of contract negotiations.

Union President Susan Lambert says the new deal with the B.C. Public School Employers' Association allows for earlier bargaining and a facilitator to help negotiations.

Lambert said she thinks teachers are glad for some upbeat news, “after so many years of frustration and disappointment.”
“This particular understanding has really, really heartened teachers that maybe there is some compromise that can be made,” Lambert told CBC News Saturday.

The BCTF voted in favour on Saturday morning while the BCSPEA board gave it the thumbs up later in the day.

The progress in this aspect of the teachers’ bargaining comes in stark contrast to the BCTF’s flat rejection of a 10-year deal proposed by the B.C. government Thursday.

The proposal, intended to bring some long-term stability to the rocky relations between teachers and government, would take away “constitutional rights” given to teachers by the courts to negotiate class sizes and composition, Lambert said.

The B.C. Court of Appeal ruled in August that administrators can't dictate rules around working conditions for teachers.

The bargaining framework now agreed on only sets out a timetable and some conditions of bargaining, not specific proposals.

Bargaining will begin Feb. 4 and proposals will be exchanged by March 1. The agreement also calls for a facilitator to assist with bargaining.

The current collective agreement between the BCTF and BCSPEA expires June 30.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-c ... ement.html

[Gone_Fishin]

boo hoo is right. lol. one of my best friends is a teacher. 10 years experience and last year's T4 read 83,000.00 income. Not too shabby for 5 years of university and the hard hard life of living in the Okanagan. Summers, Christmas, 2 weeks at Easter. Medical benefits that cant be compted with (how do y'all like 3 kids in braces at the same time? not coming out of their paycheque, the benefits cover it.) And a pension that can't be found anywhere else outside of politicians! He works his butt off and is a great teacher and deserves every penny of it too. That can't be said for a few of the other teachers I know!

We need to bust out the bctf union, get rid of it, and start hiring and paying teachers based on merit, dedication, effort, etc... kind of like the REAL WORLD!

lol, if you can't get by on a teacher's salary then you need a lesson in BUDGETING and living within your means.

[Urbane]

The teachers (or rather their Unions) have always used the children as pawns.
Add to that, the BCTF prosyletizing which happens in the classroom. It's disgusting.

All this, while spewing "We are doing this for the children".
Really? Striking benefits the kids?

Paying teachers more benefits the kids? Really?
This one of the most ridiculous ones. They are NOT paid on MERIT.

"We want to attract the best and brightest."
Again...not paid on merit. Crappy teachers are paid as well as the good ones.

Programs are dropped to allow school districts to pay the wages and benefits the BCTF demands.
Budgets for activities are drastically cut so those monies can go to wages and benefits.

And this is for the kids.....right.

It's pretty hard even for the union to try and pretend that strike action is good for kids. Shutting down schools helps kids? Withdrawing previously made commitments to coach teams or sponsor activities helps kids? Not helping students out of regular classroom hours helps kids?

The current system is dysfunctional and needs to be changed. The government made a proposal that has some good ideas but the BCTF rejects all of it out of hand. And all the talk of the right to collective bargaining must be balanced against the ability of the taxpayer to fund increases. As a retired teacher who enjoyed terrific working conditions, a very good salary, outstanding benefits, and a highly favourable work calendar I would urge teachers currently in the system to work for a change of leadership in the BCTF. The time has come (it's long overdue really).

[flamingfingers]

The BC Teachers' Federation and its direct employer have approved a new bargaining framework for the next round of contract negotiations.

See post above...

[Urbane]

The BC Teachers' Federation and its direct employer have approved a new bargaining framework for the next round of contract negotiations.

See post above...

Yes. You're conflating two things though. Long term stability is needed.

[flamingfingers]

This MAY lead to that stability. Now if the politicians can keep their uneven fingers out of it there may be a chance.

[Urbane]

This MAY lead to that stability. Now if the politicians can keep their uneven fingers out of it there may be a chance.

I think many people would agree with me that the BCTF has caused much of the instability and yet you only mention the politicians. The system is dysfunctional and needs to be changed and our kids should no longer be used as pawns.

[flamingfingers]

It takes two to tangle.. Then add in politicians posturing and trying to force issues and of course it will be all messed up. But it seems that there is a conciliatory tone from both the BCTF and BCPSEA. Leave them alone and let them work on it. I think they are BOTH tired of the useless back and forth that has existed for way too long!