Publicly-funded care that only costs $10 a day

[SurplusElect]

If you can't afford to look after your kids, don't breed.

Great strategy for a stronger Canada.

Less and less kids being born. I wonder why?

[twobits]

Great strategy for a stronger Canada.

Less and less kids being born. I wonder why?

And you would rather see kids pumped out so the village can raise them.....literally.

Look at countries where the birth rates are high. Everyone in poverty. They don't love there kids any more than us, they just need them to look after them when they are old. Then the cycle is repeated. We broke that cycle and here all children, even those below the "official" poverty level enjoy a life a thousand times better than there.
Wonder what the daycare subsidy is in India, Pakistan, Somalia, sudan........?

[SurplusElect]

We all pay for schools even if we don't have kids.

Why is that?

If we don't all collectively look after the future, we won't have one.

[Veovis]

Will you personally give me a couple grand then? Since you're ok with it, why let the government make poor use of your taxes, I'll use it directly for my daycare, I promise.

However I'm going to use the money I save to take my family on a trip somewhere. Hope you're ok with that as well.

There are already child care subsidies that exist, as well as child tax credits, and the $1200 a year people get from the federal gov per kid for daycare.

Why does it always have to be "more more more more"?

[SurplusElect]

Will you personally give me a couple grand then?

Do you feel this way about schools?

[goatboy]

Do you feel this way about schools?

So where does it stop?

Quebec's $7/day child care program costs the Government (um, I mean taxpayer), $1.6 billion a year. Yes, you read that right, $1.6 billion! Do you not the see the madness of continuing to push the costs of all these programs on to the individual taxpayer?

Life comes with choices, one of which should be can you afford to pay for something that you want, whether its a TV, new car or children.

I paid for my own children's daycare, I do not want to pay for someone else's as well

[ford150]

[Quote] I paid for my own children's daycare, I do not want to pay for someone else's as well [Quote]

We all pay for Quebec's 7 dollar day care through transfer payments. And the natives through Northern Affairs. Your child care would be paid by the tax payer if only you were the right race.

[Veovis]

Do you feel this way about schools?

We aren't talking about schools though, we're talking about people feeling entitled to cheap or free daycare instead of taking responsibility for their own decisions. Not everything can be free. You want to make it about school as it seems your argument for daycare is failed and flawed. As I said there is already lots of support for daycare that exists already.

Not everything that people "want" should be provided by other taxpayers. Daycare is not an entitlement people deserve, however proper education is.

[SurplusElect]

No children - no Canada - no human race.

If we don't breed, we don't survive. Hardly a "want", lol.

30 years ago "Mom" could stay at home and daycare wasn't a issue, but the 1% wicked away the cream on the top of the economy. Now Mom and Dad have to work and they can barely pay the bills.

Either bring wages up or fund social daycare - because that "missing money" didn't disappear from the middle class - it's just sitting at the top now.

Unless "the rich" should be the only one's that breed...

[Veovis]

No children - no Canada - no human race.

If we don't breed, we don't survive. Hardly a "want", lol.

30 years ago "Mom" could stay at home and daycare wasn't a issue, but the 1% wicked away the cream on the top of the economy. Now Mom and Dad have to work and they can barely pay the bills.

Either bring wages up or fund social daycare - because that "missing money" didn't disappear from the middle class - it's just sitting at the top now.

How wonderful of a hyperbole you make. Yes if you don't get free daycare the human race will end. My goodness.

Mom and Dad must work to pay the bills - certainly when they buy vehicles, boats, houses, TV's, computers, cell phones for every kid, Xbox, Wii, and Playstation, and make sure they still take a Mexico trip at spring break. It sure does make life tight and someone should really pick up the slack for them, really now. Or do you think only low income families should get the subsidies for daycare because guess what, they already can.

Boo hoo for bad budgeting by middle class families, but again, not my problem, that's theirs.

[SurplusElect]

So the rich should be the ones that breed. Ok then.

I guess you haven't noticed wages have stagnated for the least 25-30 years? My Father made the same amount of money that I do today - same skills - in 1974.

Nice society your building. Blame it on TV purchases ect ect. LOL.

[Veovis]

I'm not rich, but I pay my bills and take care of my family. This isn't a hard concept, I'm sorry you don't like it and feel you deserve more, but that doesn't mean you can spend spend spend and then tell the world it owes you more.

A nurse with 5 kids isn't underpaid, she's poor because she made a choice to have more kids than she can afford. This isn't a hard concept. Breed responsibly maybe.

And Low income people have daycare subsidies and breaks that middle class and "rich" don't get. Why do you keep ignoring that? Because you are perhaps more middle class and simply "want" the extra money to spend on other things?

And I didn't blame TV, you just did. My standard statement has been that people should simply take responsibility for the choices they make, your response has been "no they shouldn't it should all be free". My dad thankfully raised me to not be that self entitled.

[SurplusElect]

We live in a modern society. The government has a social contract with its citizens.

What is the point of having rulers if they do not provide for their citizens?

Welcome to modern humanity.

[Captain Awesome]

So taxpayers should pick up a tab of $800/mon per child??? And you think France's economy is in about the same state as Canada's?? Ya might want to re evaluate that thought. Socialized crap like this is why they are in the toilet just like Quebec with their $7/day daycare. Who pays for Quebec's daycare? We do with 7 billion dollars of transfer payments to them.
If you can't afford to raise them, you have no business having them.

Listen, this is just my opinion, I'm not the one making the decision. I just think that childcare should be treated the same as health care or education - our nation's wellbeing depends on these things, so leaving people alone with these issues is not the best direction my opinion. Do you know how much few days in ICU for a newborn costs? Thousands of dollars - yet it's all covered through our system and taxes while paying some user fees. There's no entitlement here, simply saying that health care is vital to our wellbeing of the nation. I see childcare as the same.

If it makes you feel better, think how it would help to expand the taxable income - not completely recover the cost of course, but it would help if the second parent could work part time and full time, pay taxes instead of sitting at home with the baby.

I'm not saying things should be free - but a well balanced user fee structure would be needed. What if it's not $10/day, may be it's $12 or $15. Not saying it should be $17/month like in France, the research needs to be done and number have to be crunched. But I still think it's quite important.

With less and less people having babies, may be it will be the thing that changes its current direction. Canadian fertility rate is at 1.5 - while a country needs to be at 2.0 to MAINTAIN its population, not even grow. Lately our population has been growing primarily because of immigration (yes, brown people from other countries who take your jobs away and so well liked on these forums). What if instead of dying off and slowly through aging as a country we actually started growing and keep getting younger? That would be an improvement both societal AND economical (broader taxable base, less services needed, etc.).

This problem isn't as simple as "poor people shouldn't breed", it needs to be discussed - and this is a good start.

Just sayin'...

[twobits]

Listen, this is just my opinion, I'm not the one making the decision. I just think that childcare should be treated the same as health care or education - our nation's wellbeing depends on these things, so leaving people alone with these issues is not the best direction my opinion. Do you know how much few days in ICU for a newborn costs? Thousands of dollars - yet it's all covered through our system and taxes while paying some user fees. There's no entitlement here, simply saying that health care is vital to our wellbeing of the nation. I see childcare as the same.

If it makes you feel better, think how it would help to expand the taxable income - not completely recover the cost of course, but it would help if the second parent could work part time and full time, pay taxes instead of sitting at home with the baby.

I'm not saying things should be free - but a well balanced user fee structure would be needed. What if it's not $10/day, may be it's $12 or $15. Not saying it should be $17/month like in France, the research needs to be done and number have to be crunched. But I still think it's quite important.

With less and less people having babies, may be it will be the thing that changes its current direction. Canadian fertility rate is at 1.5 - while a country needs to be at 2.0 to MAINTAIN its population, not even grow. Lately our population has been growing primarily because of immigration (yes, brown people from other countries who take your jobs away and so well liked on these forums). What if instead of dying off and slowly through aging as a country we actually started growing and keep getting younger? That would be an improvement both societal AND economical (broader taxable base, less services needed, etc.).

This problem isn't as simple as "poor people shouldn't breed", it needs to be discussed - and this is a good start.

Just sayin'...

Sounds good in theory but the reality is I doubt many people would have more kids because daycare was free or cheap. As Veovis points out, the savings would just be spent elsewhere with the net result that taxpayers are subsidizing a lifestyle beyond their true means. The other valid point is that substancial subsidies are already available to ensure those in lower income brackets can continue to work, contribute, and betterthemselves. That is the "social" we should be, helping those making an effort and in genuine need, not a universal free for all. In some ways I think our health system should be a tad less universal as well with those able to paying a little more as well.....at least in premiums. Our premiums are rediculously cheap compared to the cost of service and again, no premiums at all for low income situations.
And all that coming from a big C conservative.