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Caribou genocide continues

Re: Caribou genocide continues

Postby the quadguy » Jan 17th, 2015, 11:57 am

To0 Glazier, You are bang on. There used to be a herd of mountain Caribou in Monashee Provincial Park Until a small pack of about eight wolves got them in the early 80s. I believe there is still a small herd up the Columbia on the west side North of Revelstoke, However the wolves has pretty much cleaned that herd up as well, Hunters had NOTHING to do with their demise , Some snowmobilers have been seen chasing Caribou in winter, And either some people are blind or just don't want anyone disparaging their sport , But it is fact that a few as----es are still doing it. You guys should police yourselves. As far as the wolves go I was told by a conservation officer that the goal would be to take out approx, 2400 wolves in BC. hunters are NOT to blame for the demise of the deer, Elk and Moose in the southern interior The wolves take at least one elk or moose a week.Sorry sportfans, rabbits don't do it for wolves.And wether the leaf -lickin tree huggin tou fou fartin fairies like it or not we HAVE to get rid of the wolves, Or at least get their numbers down to a manageable amount,.
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Re: Caribou genocide continues

Postby Terris » Jan 17th, 2015, 1:42 pm

In about 1990 there was a wolf cull sponsored by the Cattleman's Association in the Monashee area. They were then allowed free range access to subalpine meadows for summer grazing.

The Cattlemen, with the Columbia Institute, also sponsored a reintroduction of grizzlies into the areas around Revelstoke down the Kettle River valley at the same time.

Over the last 10 years the wolf population has now increased from 1 seen pack of about 6 wolves to now being 3-4 distinct packs around the areas I have been surveying for the last 12 years. I regularly see these animals along the ridgelines and occasionally in winter/spring running up and sown the Kettle River well away from areas where caribou are seen.

There are trappers in the area who I've seen with up to 3 wolf pelts in the back of their truck.

Point being:

This type of knee-jerk wildlife management has all been done before with little long term effect on wolf or other predator populations. The main issue for extirpated Caribou habitats is loss of historic migration routes (from the US along the Selkirk Range) due to human industrial or commercial activities.

Nature is obviously out of balance and human attempts to correct this are misguided in this instance.

A better example, than Banff national Park, of the benefits of wolves in an eco system is the experience of Yellowstone Park in the states after Canadian wolves were reintroduced into the environment...
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Re: Caribou genocide continues

Postby Glacier » Jan 17th, 2015, 9:46 pm

This is no knee-jerk reaction. The government has been pussyfooting around for years, and as a result they have been backed into a corner where they only have one option left to save the caribou herds, and it's to shoot wolves before the wolves annihilate the caribou.
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Re: Caribou genocide continues

Postby Terris » Jan 18th, 2015, 9:11 am

I'm a hunter and I, unfortunately, have shot a wolf several years ago that I thought was going after one of my dogs at a camp. I've also seen the same dog running with several wild wolves over several days before she returned, unmolested, to camp.

This is a human caused problem. Plain and simple.

As usual; nature takes the blame and pays the price.

I understand the pro wolf kill responses here in terms of what an Alaskan Governor was famously quoted as a saying during a state sponsored wolf kill a few years ago; "You can't just let nature run wild".

I disagree that we need to repeatedly resort to the "final solution" rather than address our own role in the disruption of natural cycles that existed here long before any of our ancestors were born.

Killing wolves may allow a resurgence of the Woodland caribou but the herds and gene pool are already too disrupted for this to have any meaningful impact.

A ban on human activity in the caribou's migration routes from Utah WILL create a long term solution.
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Re: Caribou genocide continues

Postby bob vernon » Jan 25th, 2015, 1:19 pm

Yes, it's probably a human caused problem with their habitat being destroyed or altered. Let's finish off these caribou and put this issue behind us. Extinctions have happened since life began and this is just another one. Other animals will move into the altered habitat and thrive. Moose, deer, elk. But we have to stop this cycle of habitat destruction and then spending millions on trying to deny what we've done. Let the caribou go and move forward. Maybe learn something from it. But is this really worth it?
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Re: Caribou genocide continues

Postby Smurf » Jan 25th, 2015, 2:47 pm

I bet it is if you're a Caribou.
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Re: Caribou genocide continues

Postby A_Britishcolumbian » May 2nd, 2017, 2:07 pm

such a sad state of affairs.

viewtopic.php?f=26&t=72359
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Re: Caribou genocide continues

Postby hobbyguy » May 4th, 2017, 9:12 am

The reading I have done on this subject reveals that mountain or woodland caribou are a very sensitive species.

To a very large extent, they only existed in habitat "islands". Those habitat islands were/are harsh ones where other species struggle. Their relatives, the "barren-land" caribou also only exist in relatively harsh habitats that are unfavorable to other species.

Like many "island" species, woodland caribou seem to be very, very sensitive to relatively minor changes in habitat. The changes in our climate are having a major impact on their habitat "islands". Reading about the Wells Gray herd, and its decline is indicative. The first sign of trouble for the woodland caribou is when moose or deer begin to find the habitat amenable. Moose invading the Wells Gray habitat in the 1920s was the first sign of trouble. Once the moose get established, they begin to change the habitat so that it is more amenable to deer, and as the prey species increase in population and density, predators like wolves move in. Woodland caribou seem unable to withstand any predation pressure whatsoever.

When you think about it, the reason that woodland caribou are adapted to and existed in the harsh habitat "islands" was that they are unable to compete in other habitats. They do not seem to have the adaptations necessary to deal with predators. Woodland caribou populations were always very low density and in what for other species was lousy habitat. Why were the woodland caribou adapted to that harsh habitat? Likely because their species can not survive where predation is a significant factor.

So what changes? The climate for one thing. Plant species start to change. That makes the habitat more suitable for moose and deer. The moose and deer move in, and their browsing/eating habitats change the plant species mix even further. Fires and human activities on the land create more openings for the "new" plant species to thrive. That allows moose and deer population to grow (more fodder). When the prey density reaches a tipping point, wolves and other predators will establish themselves - and the woodland/mountain caribou are toast - because the woodland caribou were there in the first place because of a lack of predators/competition.

In that logic, there actually isn't anything at all that we can do. Wolf culls may temporarily have a positive impact, but unless you cull the moose and deer, and the foundation plant species for the moose and deer, you are only treating the top symptom. And we can not change the climate back. Wolf culls, maternal pens etc., all of those things may make us feel better about the situation, but in the end they will solve nothing.

That may sound a bit Malthusian, but I do not see another outcome. There are "island" habitat species all over the world that are disappearing. http://www.biologicaldiversity.org/programs/biodiversity/elements_of_biodiversity/extinction_crisis/

I lament the changes I see out there. Pragmatically, I can not see a way back. If you cull the wolves, the population of moose and deer will go up until it becomes unhealthy, and then disease and parasites will do to the woodland caribou what the wolves would have done.
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Re: Caribou genocide continues

Postby A_Britishcolumbian » May 5th, 2017, 4:01 pm

hobbyguy, i do enjoy post, and appreciate your perspective.

i think you would either reach a different conclusion (if you have one now), or see a different set of possibilities if you delete prophecy of climate change, and put more emphasis on the fact that the 'island' populations have survived, do survive, and we should be doing all we can to preserve those populations so as to give a possibility of a future for the species.

your effort and insights reflect your obvious care for and consideration of these beautiful beings whose lives and future we hold in our power. :)
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Re: Caribou genocide continues

Postby hobbyguy » May 6th, 2017, 12:14 am

There have been efforts to preserve the Wells Gray herd ever since the 1930s. The population has NEVER recovered and has continued to decline regardless of government policy or the flavor of the government (the herd declined badly in 1990s).

Once the moose and deer move into their habitat - the woodland caribou can not compete.

So do you suggest we wipe out all the wolves, all the moose, all the deer?

There is no question that the BC climate has warmed. That warming has consequences. It changes the ecology - we get things like the pine beetle epidemic, more fires, and the landscape changes. Some species can not adapt, and we can not go back.
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Re: Caribou genocide continues

Postby A_Britishcolumbian » Oct 31st, 2017, 4:56 pm

Caribou herds and habitat continue to decline: federal report
None of Canada’s 51 caribou herds are known to be growing
THE CANADIAN PRESS
Oct. 31, 2017 11:35 a.m.

https://www.vicnews.com/news/caribou-he ... al-report/

Woodland caribou continue to decline as provinces fail to meet protection deadline
In the meantime, caribou, and their habitat continue to decline
By Susan Lunn, CBC News Posted: Oct 31, 2017

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/boreal- ... -1.4380050

in depth...
EXPERT BLOG › SHELLEY VINYARD
Boreal Caribou Crisis Worsens as Inaction and Delay Continue
October 31, 2017 Shelley Vinyard
Written with Courtenay Lewis

https://www.nrdc.org/experts/shelley-vi ... y-continue

and yes, the rest of the world is aware of 'our' evil deeds...
Canada caribou herds, habitat continue to decline: report
October 31, 2017

https://phys.org/news/2017-10-canada-ca ... cline.html
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Re: Caribou genocide continues

Postby Queen K » Oct 31st, 2017, 5:07 pm

Too much sadness. Just too much.

Nothing can help them recover?
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Re: Caribou genocide continues

Postby maryjane48 » Oct 31st, 2017, 6:22 pm

Humans taking their land is whats killing them like flooding with a dam . Hobby has proved through his posts he doesnt care one bit about any animal or fish . Site c is going to kill 40 percent of the fish every year . As with dams. The caribou problem is humans . Its black and white
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Re: Caribou genocide continues

Postby Gone_Fishin » Oct 31st, 2017, 6:49 pm

Queen K wrote:Too much sadness. Just too much.

Nothing can help them recover?


Yes, we can help them. Do a wolf reduction program and the 'bou will stabilize and come back from the brink. People have to decide whether plentiful wolves can be reduced in caribou areas or whether they want to see caribou extirpated by wolves. Until habitat is repaired, which will take decades, there's no other choice in the near term but to do predator control. Wolves won't go extinct, but caribou will.
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Re: Caribou genocide continues

Postby Queen K » Oct 31st, 2017, 6:54 pm

Has there been a wolf reduction program in place, ever? Or in the last decade? Two?
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