BC terrorism plot - entrapment?

[Donald G]

To Charles Whitman II ...

Given what goes on in our Criminal Courts today you could be right about them walking. The search for truth and justice has become nothing but a theoretical discussion of criminal law in which any of a dozen "technical" defences. that have nothing to do with the truth take precedence.

Destroying the ability of the police to convict people for drunk driving under the Criminal Code is a classic example of what happens when theoretical law takes priority over reality.

[Treblehook]

Yes, and the streets have gotten much, much meaner in the last twenty-five or thirty years. There isn't even any

honour among thieves

in this day and age. The police have their hands tied in so many ways that it is nearly impossible to successfully investigate and prosecute the worst of the worst of our criminal element. Full disclosure as they call it, has gone way past what most of us would consider reasonable and necessary. All of this has not only made investigations much more complex, but has also driven the cost of investigations and prosecutions to astronomical levels.

[Smurf]

I would also bet it has left a lot of people on the street that should not be there. Way too many loopholes for law breakers.

[Atomoa]

The police have their hands tied in so many ways that it is nearly impossible to successfully investigate and prosecute the worst of the worst of our criminal element.

Please explain how your statement relates to this case.

How were the RCMP's "hands tied" given that 240 officers worked for years with a seemingly unlimited budget, even closing off and evacuating a city block by staging a fake meth lab accident to emotionally manipulate a person?

How were the RCMP hands tied when they talked Nuttall out of making poop missiles, and instead talked him into something the RCMP thought up themselves - which could actually hurt someone?

[Donald G]

To Atomoa ...

Before anyone could explain your allegations they would have to be true. Try again.

[Atomoa]

Everything I cited has been clearly established previously in this thread.

- 240 officers were on the case.

- The RCMP closed off a city block and staged a meth lab accident (complete with fire trucks and EMT) in order to make the subjects more paranoid of the police and more dependent on the undercover officers.

- Nuttall wanted to make poop missiles and attack a non existent train and submarine base. The undercover officers got upset and scolded and yelled at Nuttall for "not coming up with a good plan" and when the suggestion of pressure cooker bomb was made by one RCMP officer, the other RCMP officer agreed with the suggestion and prompted Nuttall that it was more like a plan that he wanted.

I question the notion the police were "held back" in this case. How were they limited?

The RCMP also put Nuttall up in a luxury hotel room a few times (where he sat and played video games the whole time instead of coming up with a terrorist plot) and bought him drugs, gifts of money and food regularly. The RCMP were giving a poverty stricken couple food, money and drugs - just to be clear.

[Donald G]

If you think that 240 police officers were assigned to this case for the length of the investigation you are out of your mind. The only time additional officers would be involved in evacuating citizens is if there was a real danger to their safety. What was that real danger ??

If you think that there was an unlimited budget and that money was not a constant concern you are out of your mind.
Money is ALWAYS a concern and, where and when possible, investigations planned and guided accordingly.

If you think that the officers "led" the suspects, knowing full well that that would nullify all of their efforts in court you are out of your mind.

If you think that the main investigators were not guided through EVERY step of the investigation, including input from lawyers, you are out of your mind.

WADR you obviously know nothing whatever about how RCMP investigations of this nature are handled.

[maryjane48]

them cops should be on trial for terrorism

[maryjane48]

If you think that 240 police officers were assigned to this case for the length of the investigation you are out of your mind. The only time additional officers would be involved in evacuating citizens is if there was a real danger to their safety. What was that real danger ??

If you think that there was an unlimited budget and that money was not a constant concern you are out of your mind.
Money is ALWAYS a concern and, where and when possible, investigations planned and guided accordingly.

If you think that the officers "led" the suspects, knowing full well that that would nullify all of their efforts in court you are out of your mind.

If you think that the main investigators were not guided through EVERY step of the investigation, including input from lawyers, you are out of your mind.

WADR you obviously know nothing whatever about how RCMP investigations of this nature are handled.

wadr you are not or never been a cop , except in your mind

[FreeRights]

them cops should be on trial for terrorism

What's your reasoning? They didn't commit terrorism.

[Atomoa]

What's your reasoning? They didn't commit terrorism.

According to the judge currently :

Justice Catherine Bruce has not yet ruled whether the RCMP entrapped John Nuttall and Amanda Korody into plotting to blow up the B.C. legislature in 2013, but she said in a ruling released Wednesday that the Mounties may be guilty of knowingly facilitating a terrorist act.

[FreeRights]

Entrapment is one thing, facilitating a terrorist act is something else completely. They had more than enough controls in place to ensure a terrorist act was not a potential result.

[Atomoa]

If the RCMP facilitated the terrorist act the accused are accused of - most likely that makes them ineligible to be charged with the illegally-constructed crime.

Not automatically ineligible but most likely. Haven't got through to the entrapment meat and bones because the judge is still going over what the RCMP did, which turns out to be possibly illegal.

[Atomoa]

They had more than enough controls in place to ensure a terrorist act was not a potential result.

I guess that's one way of putting it? The RCMP had severe difficulty in getting the two accussed to do anything that remotely was a threat is another way you could say it.

The RCMP spent almost a year talking him out of poop missiles they couldn't charge him with, because it wasn't a threat. After all the gifts and hotel rooms and vacations, the "bombs" Nuttall produced didnt work. The RCMP had to provide little bits of C4 (absolutely unattainable by the accused) that would set off the homemade explosives.

Nuttall wasn't a threat until they taught him how to be one, but even then he failed. Then the RCMP gave him working explosives which they later disabled, drove him to Victoria when he didnt have bus fare or a driver's license and then charged him with endangering the lives of Canadians.

I don't normally agree with the MJ's posts but I agree that someone needs to stand tall for this *bleep* investiagtion. One of the lead investigators clearly wrote "These two couldn't put together a bagged lunch we need to stop this now" and someone up top pressured it and kicked it up. This case was referenced constantly as a need to pass surveillance and anti terrorism laws which would restrict our rights.

That's as dirty as a government can get without coming to your house at night with a black bag and a ride to the countryside.

[Donald G]

WADR the conversation has left reality and is approaching being ridiculous in terms of unfounded allegations being made for which there is no basis whatever based on the trial evidence to date. We shall see what any additional evidence depicts.