Greg Matters

[Donald G]

Telling people (in hindsight) that "alternate means" should have been used to handle a given situation is a completely useless use of words because it only applies to action taken in hindsight. NONE of the world operates in hindsight in real life.

Like travelling back in time it is a theory lacking reality.

[dogspoiler]

An excellent example of a useless waste of words . Thanks

[simnut]

An excellent example of a useless waste of words . Thanks

Not really. You know the old saying.....hindsight is 20/20. Anything derived from the GM case could only apply to the GM case OR a case that entails EXACTLY the same person(and we know everyone is different), circumstances and timing as the GM case. This is what many have to remember.......situations , no matter how hard law enforcement or doctors or relatives try......are ALL going to be different!!! Generally speaking, yes....we can learn SOME things from previous events, but there will still be variables that NO ONE can predict or do anything about.

That is why , the next time there is a "police event", it may go differently than planned....with no blame to officers involved.

[omisimaw]

The whole thing is that they are not just looking at the last 15 minutes of the decedents time on this earth and what happened in the last few minutes when they evaluate what took place.
Lessons learned can be applied to many things, not just similar incidents and take downs so there is a ton of information that comes out of these inquiries and investigations. Problem is everyone thinks when they read the outcomes that the "ideas" are some form of ruling that matters must now be dealt with in the way the findings read. They forget that the findings are "suggestions for change". They do not have to be accepted and do not change the laws, policies and procedures of any organization.
The authorities did not create this situation. Far far from the truth on that thought. GM created this all himself by his choices, coupled with his illness and the obvious handling by the medical community. The latter is in actuality is a great deal of the problem and then if you walk it back there is culpability on family and friends as well.
This whole dysfunctional violent in-fighting between family members had been ongoing for a very, very long time. How the medical / counseling team could not have been aware of and been dealing with this is beyond reason. So again, there were failings long before that last few minutes of this persons life that were in no way shape or form connected to the police.
Think about it for a minute, what would everyone be saying if GM had killed someone that fateful night? What would they be saying if he had also then been sentenced to spend the rest of his days behind bars? Do you actually think a person in his mental capacity would have survived in a general populace incarceration scenario?

[wanderingman]

The authorities did not create this situation. Far far from the truth on that thought. GM created this all himself by his choices, coupled with his illness and the obvious handling by the medical community. The latter is in actuality is a great deal of the problem and then if you walk it back there is culpability on family and friends as well.

that's false and that's why this all happened/ Greg had not like murdered someone or kidnaped and raped someone etc/
His brother caused the rukus to begin with
Had the cops just minded their own business let things cool down and had a talk the next day none of this would have happened
Oh no they have to make a federal case out of this with swat team, snipers, helicopters etc etc
the cops caused this whole deal

[omisimaw]

The authorities did not create this situation. Far far from the truth on that thought. GM created this all himself by his choices, coupled with his illness and the obvious handling by the medical community. The latter is in actuality is a great deal of the problem and then if you walk it back there is culpability on family and friends as well.

that's false and that's why this all happened/ Greg had not like murdered someone or kidnaped and raped someone etc/
His brother caused the rukus to begin with
Had the cops just minded their own business let things cool down and had a talk the next day none of this would have happened
Oh no they have to make a federal case out of this with swat team, snipers, helicopters etc etc
the cops caused this whole deal

LOL yup let the cops mind their own business.... you are totally in your own little world aren't you. Wake up smell the coffee, life does not work the way you dream!
His brother did not get up out of a chair, go out and get in a car (apparently not even his own!) and chase another vehicle down a public road, then get out of said vehicle and go over to the vehicle he had now forced off said public road and start pounding on the driver!
So his brother did not create a damn thing! His brother had no court order against him to not be able to go to his mothers place, GM however had a court order to stay away from the brother....
Choices, plain and simple...
AND never are the police just going to "mind there own business" and not get involved in crime..... nice try though...

GM had choices, they started way before the moment he died and continued up until that time.... he made his own choices...

His choices could have caused a death, absolutely no question about it ... and in the end they did and thankfully it was NOT an innocent person traveling on that public road, or one of the RCMP members!

[MAPearce]

The authorities did not create this situation. Far far from the truth on that thought. GM created this all himself by his choices, coupled with his illness and the obvious handling by the medical community.

I call *bleep*....

Mr. Matters didn't "choose" to be ill , therefore , he did NOT "create" this all by himself..

Mr. Matters chose to serve his country. He became ill because of it.

If he's at fault for anything , it for thinking that anyone would be grateful enough to understand what happens when you come home after service to OUR country.

He was not only *bleep* on by the DVA , but by the guys who'd never have the balls to do what he did overseas....

And those "guys" are the one who "tried" to arrest him...

[omisimaw]

This is not a thread about the service served, but lets make it simple, it was a Peacekeeping position ... keeping the peace in a foreign land!
Greg Matters had choices, as did those closest to him! This was not something created by the ERT or the RCMP or any of the court individuals that handed out the sentences or heard the cases presented for actions, aggressive actions, by this person, ALL those individuals "serve" Canadians as well.
This has nothing to do with HOW he may have gotten ill.
It does however say those left behind must be sick at heart IF they had done everything they could but the system actually failed this individual.
But as he was not in jail, not in a supervised living environment it also says he was deemed sane enough to live independently, making his own decisions and choices.
And that he did, the night he got in a car, that did not belong to him, knowingly going after his own brother, from his mothers home, knowing he was under a no contact order from the court, and yet he CHOOSE to chase down his brother, on a public street, with a vehicle that did not belong to him, and he CHOOSE to then pummel his brother which in this country is considered assault, a criminal act.
The choices did not stop there and as wrong and bad and illegal as all that was he was still given the CHOICE to come in by himself and turn himself in.
It is at this point that he makes another CHOICE to start and play games....
So in the end, it ends up with individuals ALL of whom serve Canadians in his case, coming face to face and again, he was given a CHOICE to put down a weapon and end the standoff peacefully.
He choose not to.

[Donald G]

To MA ...

Are you saying that being seriously injured while serving your country gives you the right to harm others that you encounter when you come home, regardless of the circumstances ?? I support your point up until the person coming home causes the health and well being of others to be in immediate danger. It may not be fair but reality demands that it be that way.

[A_Britishcolumbian]

The sister of a Canadian military veteran who was gunned down by an RCMP emergency response team is expressing frustration with the time it’s taken for the Civilian Review and Complaints Commission for the RCMP to issue a final report on the incident.

It’s been nearly 3 1/2 years since the commission’s interim chair, Ian McPhail initiated a “public interest investigation” into the conduct of RCMP members involved in the September 2012 death of Greg Matters

The correspondence she has received from the commission since the investigation was announced has done nothing to assuage Tracey Matters.

“Every step that we’ve been through to date has been fraught with bureaucratic time-wasting, government colluding and political strategizing,” she said.

However, she later added the Matters family was happy with the recommendations the jury issued in January 2014 at the end of a coroner’s inquest into her brother’s death.

“This seems to be the only true non-government, non-political and independent decision-making group so far,” Matters said.

http://www.theprovince.com/news/local+n ... story.html

but of course, the inquest made no decisions per say, rather suggestions, which included body cameras, and others that had been made before by prior enquiries, and the vast majority of which have not been implemented as of this date.