Greg Matters

[Donald G]

To justshort ...

Thanks for your comment and your desire that the truth be known to all.

Especially when there has been so much false and misleading information given by people whose only interest is to find the police guilty of anything and everything. Regardless of what the actual truth may be.

[dogspoiler]

Here is some truth.
The Police are workers, no more no less.
They are working in their chosen field.
They are given tasks to perform.
They are trained and equiped to do these tasks.
If they were tasked to arrest Mr. Matters, they failed.
I,m sure that this incident will be brought up in future training, and hopefully will help to prevent similar incidents.

[MAPearce]

Amen.

[FreeRights]

Here is some truth.
The Police are workers, no more no less.
They are working in their chosen field.
They are given tasks to perform.
They are trained and equiped to do these tasks.
If they were tasked to arrest Mr. Matters, they failed.
I,m sure that this incident will be brought up in future training, and hopefully will help to prevent similar incidents.

You can only "attempt to arrest" so much but when the situation becomes a potential threat to someone doing a job, evidently different circumstances occur reducing the chance of an arrest, at no fault of the police.

[simnut]

If they were tasked to arrest Mr. Matters, they failed.

Someone give you a basketball at the free throw line. You throw a perfect shot , arcing to what will be a perfect "swish". Just as the ball is about to go into the basket...someone moves the basket. Did you fail?

[dogspoiler]

Someone give you a basketball at the free throw line. You throw a perfect shot , arcing to what will be a perfect "swish". Just as the ball is about to go into the basket...someone moves the basket. Did you fail?

Yes. the ball did not go in the basket.

[simnut]

Yes. the ball did not go in the basket.

YOU did not fail, someone else caused the ball not to go into the basket. Someone else changed the circumstances while YOU did a perfect shot. You did not fail, but you also did not achieve the "goal". Achieving the goal failed, not you....the shooter.

[dogspoiler]

YOU did not fail, someone else caused the ball not to go into the basket. Someone else changed the circumstances while YOU did a perfect shot. You did not fail, but you also did not achieve the "goal". Achieving the goal failed, not you....the shooter.

An investigation would show.
Primary cause of failure, the basket was moved by bystanders.
Contributing factors, Thrower did not consider interference by bystanders. Thrower did not take control of the situation and have everyone stand clear of the area.
Findings
The thrower had no reason not to trust the bystanders and therefore took no action.
The thrower is at no fault for the failure of the shot.

[simnut]

The thrower is at no fault for the failure of the shot.

Exactly.....

[dogspoiler]

Exactly.....

Could you please explain exactly how you determine the relevance between these two events ?

[simnut]

Could you please explain exactly how you determine the relevance between these two events ?

Every thing the police were doing UP to the time Greg became aggressive, was working. GREG changed the situation......at no fault of the officers on scene. Greg "moved the basket".

[dogspoiler]

Every thing the police were doing UP to the time Greg became aggressive, was working. GREG changed the situation......at no fault of the officers on scene. Greg "moved the basket".

I would counter with. It was the officers actions that led Greg to become aggressive. The officers should have anticipated this.

[simnut]

I would counter with. It was the officers actions that led Greg to become aggressive. The officers should have anticipated this.

You know, in a way you are correct. But that doesn't mean the officers "quit" their task ......these are officers trained and paid to do something as directed. They took many hours to get to the point of getting Greg to head down the driveway, many hours to get him to the point that he was "arrestable". All was working according to plan....even to Greg's mind...as he was the one complying! Then the situation changed...in a way that no one could "plan" any more. It was time for reaction. No one can deny the fact that Greg was complying...things were going as planned.....and Greg changed that at the last instant. Sure, the police knew who he was, the problems he had....but he was a suspect in an assault, and these officers were there to detain him as part of the investigation. Knowing who and how he was does not change their mandate.

Let me ask you this, how do you think they should have handled the arrest?

[dogspoiler]

You know, in a way you are correct. But that doesn't mean the officers "quit" their task ......these are officers trained and paid to do something as directed. They took many hours to get to the point of getting Greg to head down the driveway, many hours to get him to the point that he was "arrestable". All was working according to plan....even to Greg's mind...as he was the one complying! Then the situation changed...in a way that no one could "plan" any more. It was time for reaction. No one can deny the fact that Greg was complying...things were going as planned.....and Greg changed that at the last instant. Sure, the police knew who he was, the problems he had....but he was a suspect in an assault, and these officers were there to detain him as part of the investigation. Knowing who and how he was does not change their mandate.

Let me ask you this, how do you think they should have handled the arrest?

With incidents involving mentaly disturbed people on the rise I believe that better non-lethal means must be found to deal with them. If this is not done this scenario will be repeated.
The only way that I could make any direct comment would be if I was there to see how it transpired, the reports don't give the real feeling of the situation. I'm sure that the officers involved have gone over the incident looking for better ways. I doubt that any of them found the results satisfactory.

[Smurf]

You are correct dogspoiler and possibly if we had been there we would realize it was well handled. That is the trouble with second guessing using little information. The others involved might not have been satisfied with the results but they also might realize there was nothing done wrong with what was available to them at the time and under the circumstances.