Re: Shooting at Licenced Grow Op in Surrey

Smurf · Post by **Smurf** » Mar 18th, 2014, 4:05 pm

So what you are saying is that it is illegal to grow marijuana without a medical license. So please tell me why people woukd want ILLEGAL grow ops in the area of their homes.

Treblehook · Post by **Treblehook** » Mar 18th, 2014, 4:58 pm

Illegal vs unlawful. Semantics. They both mean the same thing to most people. Cultivating marihuana was an offence against the Narcotic Control Act in Canada for as long as that Act was in effect and it has been an offense since the Controlled Drugs and Substances Act came into law in 1996.

sanfish · Post by **sanfish** » Mar 18th, 2014, 5:11 pm

Treblehook wrote:Illegal vs unlawful. Semantics. They both mean the same thing to most people. Cultivating marihuana was an offence against the Narcotic Control Act in Canada for as long as that Act was in effect and it has been an offense since the Controlled Drugs and Substances Act came into law in 1996.

Actually it's far more than semantics....more like the Law vs "company rules and regulations. I do agree its "the same" for many people. The minute that understanding changes, is the minute the world will be a much better place ( not just concerning marijuana and its suppression ) . Regardless, a question was asked and answered. Marijuana was both "legal" and Lawful ( even encouraged/forced) for all of time minus the last 80-90 years where it has become "illegal" while remaining , as always, Lawful

Smurf · Post by **Smurf** » Mar 19th, 2014, 8:31 am

It is still illegal today meaning many should not be there to start with. Why would anyone want a grow op of any type next door when there is even the slightest potential for bullets to fly. This is not the laws or police causing the problems. It is the criminals who could care less if the op is legal or illegal. They just should never be in a residential area, period.

sanfish · Post by **sanfish** » Mar 19th, 2014, 9:57 am

Smurf wrote:It is still illegal today meaning many should not be there to start with. Why would anyone want a grow op of any type next door when there is even the slightest potential for bullets to fly. This is not the laws or police causing the problems. It is the criminals who could care less if the op is legal or illegal. They just should never be in a residential area, period.

Actually it all boils down to VALUE. Why would you want to live in any nice area with neighbours who have nice jewellery , a boat, some cash, wicked electronics, etc at home if there is even the slightest chance for bullets to fly? When someone robs your home they generally pass by the things of little value. Sure those same violent criminals may LOVE pizza, but they generally don't stop In the kitchen to make themselves one whole they're robbing you of your valuables. In the case of marijauna , only 2 parties are responsible for for any violence et al.... The people legislating an absurd prohibition/restrictive regulations, and those individuals who feel its their right to take property from others. Perhaps we should be addressing those 2 issues rather than punishing peaceful individuals in their own home or demonizing a natural plant with all sorts of beneficial qualities.

Treblehook · Post by **Treblehook** » Mar 19th, 2014, 10:46 am

Actually, IMHO you are all wet on your allocation of blame Sanfish. In the case of the armed intrusions into illegal grow ops, there are two parties wrong: the criminal who is operating the illegal grow and the criminal who commits the armed robbery. Nobody else is responsible or accountable for the criminal behavior. The people chose to do what they did and they are accountable. Again, IMHO, the unwillingness of people to accept responsibility and accountability for their own actions is one of the problems plaguing our society today as well as the fact that too many people make excuses for bad or illegal behavior on the part of others. In the case of the legal grow operations, there is only one party guilty of any crime and that is the scum who chose to commit armed robbery. Nobody else. Also your comparison of people having valuable jewelry and belongings in their homes, and thus becoming targets of thieves and robbers is apples and oranges. Don't you find it odd that these "innocent" people who are growing pot for their own private use [licensed or not] are so readily found out by the scum that end up robbing them? I mean this was happening long before the incident with the letters from HC being sent out to licensed growers. Maybe they were selling or distributing some of their product resulting in the word getting out or maybe they had big mouths and couldn't keep their traps shut about what they were doing. And of course, if they were illegal, there is always the reality that there are certain risks inherent in involving oneself in criminal endeavors ... no?

Smurf · Post by **Smurf** » Mar 19th, 2014, 11:12 am

Exactly. It is not illegal to have nice things in your home. It is illegal to grow Marijuana. Two totally different things. I also believe they attract two totally different kinds of criminals. The ones attracted to grow ops, I believe are generally a lot more serious type of criminal. Hells Angels, Red Scorpions, whoever aren't usually attracted to a few nice things in a house and when they do go in, they go in prepared for trouble and more than ready to dish it out.

sanfish · Post by **sanfish** » Mar 19th, 2014, 11:15 am

Treblehook wrote:Actually, IMHO you are all wet on your allocation of blame Sanfish. In the case of the armed intrusions into illegal grow ops, there are two parties wrong: the criminal who is operating the illegal grow and the criminal who commits the armed robbery. Nobody else is responsible or accountable for the criminal behavior. The people chose to do what they did and they are accountable. Again, IMHO, the unwillingness of people to accept responsibility and accountability for their own actions is one of the problems plaguing our society today as well as the fact that too many people make excuses for bad or illegal behavior on the part of others. In the case of the legal grow operations, there is only one party guilty of any crime and that is the scum who chose to commit armed robbery. Nobody else. Also your comparison of people having valuable jewelry and belongings in their homes, and thus becoming targets of thieves and robbers is apples and oranges. Don't you find it odd that these "innocent" people who are growing pot for their own private use [licensed or not] are so readily found out by the scum that end up robbing them? I mean this was happening long before the incident with the letters from HC being sent out to licensed growers. Maybe they were selling or distributing some of their product resulting in the word getting out or maybe they had big mouths and couldn't keep their traps shut about what they were doing. And of course, if they were illegal, there is always the reality that there are certain risks inherent in involving oneself in criminal endeavors ... no?

So you're saying that there is a danger of criminals violently breaking into my home for a half sack of beer? A couple of dozen Kegs? What about all those Crimminal gangs committing "cake rips" from home bakers ? Taking away the profit from and the need for illicit marijuana takes the profit and interest away from criminals. It's really quite simple.

sanfish · Post by **sanfish** » Mar 19th, 2014, 11:20 am

Smurf wrote:Exactly. It is not illegal to have nice things in your home. It is illegal to grow Marijuana. Two totally different things. I also believe they attract two totally different kinds of criminals. The ones attracted to grow ops, I believe are generally a lot more serious type of criminal. Hells Angels, Red Scorpions, whoever aren't usually attracted to a few nice things in a house and when they do go in, they go in prepared for trouble and more than ready to dish it out.

And why would they not be interested you ask? Glad you did! They wouldn't be as interested simply because there is more PROFIT in marijuana due directly to prohibition/restrictive regualtions. The solution you ask? Glad you did! Take the profit out of it by legalizing . Oh and perhaps , regardless of the reason an individual is being violent , try giving penalties for that rather than punishing a peaceful individual growing a natural plant. SMH

Smurf · Post by **Smurf** » Mar 19th, 2014, 11:48 am

Dreamer. As long as it is illegal anywhere it will be valuable. You seem to forget that there is huge trafficking in cigarettes which have been illegal for years. I still do not fell that legalizing it will help that much because by the time the government taxes it, it will be easy for the gangs to undercut them. Also still a lot easier to market to the kids on the street than for them to find a way to get legal stuff. There will be lots of illegal MJ still on the street if and when it is legalized, just because of the nature of the beast. It will just make the gangs that much more protective of their turf.

sanfish · Post by **sanfish** » Mar 19th, 2014, 11:57 am

Smurf wrote:Dreamer. As long as it is illegal anywhere it will be valuable. You seem to forget that there is huge trafficking in cigarettes which have been illegal for years. I still do not fell that legalizing it will help that much because by the time the government taxes it, it will be easy for the gangs to undercut them. Also still a lot easier to market to the kids on the street than for them to find a way to get legal stuff. There will be lots of illegal MJ still on the street if and when it is legalized, just because of the nature of the beast. It will just make the gangs that much more protective of their turf.

I am neither a dreamer not did I forget anything. It's just that I prefer to live my life and base my decisions based solely on what is Just and Right, rather than compare my actions/beliefs to the lowest common denominator out there. Is it your belief then that we should unlawfully /unrigteously punish our own citizens because someone somewhere else is doing the same? Should we hold off on all basic human rights decisions until every other nation does so first . It's a sad statement on us that society seems to have allowed the followers ( our representatives) to become our "leaders", and the true leaders ( us) to be its followers.

Smurf · Post by **Smurf** » Mar 19th, 2014, 2:02 pm

If you had followed these threads over the last number of years you would know I am against legalization of drugs. Always have been, probably always will be. I am not following anybody, I believe it is the best thing for society. I am however realistic and believe it will happen, but I would like to see it happen properly as I've said earlier in this thread, I still believe that if we took a vote today similar to California (where so many felt it was a guaranteed thing) that we also would turn it down. I do not believe we need mind altering, dangerous drugs for recreation. And yes Marijuana is dangerous, just get high and drive, you are a definite danger on the road. Get high and work in a dangerous place you are a danger to yourself and everyone around you.

Feel sorry for the innocent licensed growers in Surrey and hope we can stop any grows in residential neighborhoods.

Well I think I have already been down this road too many times in these threads, time to bow out again.

sanfish · Post by **sanfish** » Mar 19th, 2014, 2:23 pm

Smurf wrote:If you had followed these threads over the last number of years you would know I am against legalization of drugs. Always have been, probably always will be. I am not following anybody, I believe it is the best thing for society. I am however realistic and believe it will happen, but I would like to see it happen properly as I've said earlier in this thread, I still believe that if we took a vote today similar to California (where so many felt it was a guaranteed thing) that we also would turn it down. I do not believe we need mind altering, dangerous drugs for recreation. And yes Marijuana is dangerous, just get high and drive, you are a definite danger on the road. Get high and work in a dangerous place you are a danger to yourself and everyone around you.

Feel sorry for the innocent licensed growers in Surrey and hope we can stop any grows in residential neighborhoods.

Well I think I have already been down this road too many times in these threads, time to bow out again.

It's also just as/more dangerous to drink and drive, drink and work, operate vehicles/machines etc on prescription meds, extreme sports after having sniffed glue , inhaling gasoline etc etc etc , yet we don't ban those substances nor do we make those activities illegal. What we have done is put legislation in place making it illegal to drive while intoxicated, illegal to work wasted and so on. I'm not advocating smoking weed and driving or working, but perhaps the ressources freed up by no longer demonizing an amazing, natural, healthy plant could be better put to use actually enforcing rules we already have concerning the combo of activities you mention.

Are you also aware that smoking marijuana ( while mostly benign /harmless, recreationally wonderful, and medicinally beneficial) is the least beneficial way of getting the medicine ones body naturally craves? When one juices marihuana ( yes even those strains that are "high grade"), it is impossible to get high in the slightest? THC doesn't even become THC until heated/dried. In its raw form, it is a water soluble fatty acid with different bio chemical make up. In its raw form it is amongst the healthiest super food vegetables an individual , sick or otherwise , could ever hope to put into their bodies (interestingly enough this option is being taken away from people under the new proposed regulations). I say "proposed" because a decision is expected Friday concerning the unlawfulness of the proposed new regulations. It was exactly this type of archaic thinking about a decade ago that led to the implementation of the HC program in the first place. Even if these changes come to pass , it is only a matter if a short time until they are found to be null and void "ab initio" ( from the beginning). Don't even get me started on the shenanigans happening in some municipalities ( Kelowna amongst them) who are trying to rewrite the definition of "Agriculture" to exclude marihuana from Provincially lefislation that lists medicinal marijuana ( ad all marijuana by inclusion) as appropriate use of ALR land. They should be reminded of the "Paramountcy doctrine" which states that when 2 or more pieces of Legislation collide, the one deemed "paramount" supersedes the other. The actions of municipal govts is akin to the parent asking the child permission to set an appropriate bedtime.

Smurf · Post by **Smurf** » Mar 19th, 2014, 3:09 pm

Here's a good story. Good on the RCMP and whomever was involved. Keep up the good work.

http://www.castanet.net/edition/news-story--3-.htm

Vancouver police say a drug-den bust has resulted in the seizure and sale of one asset worth $850,000, with more forefeiture funds pending.

Police began their investigation, dubbed project Twizzler, in September 2011 with the belief that drug dealers were targeting marginalized people living in the Downtown Eastside.

Search warrants were used in two locations, and police say they found more than $50,000 in cash, large amounts of cocaine, heroin, marijuana, crystal meth and a variety of weapons.

Police say one of the two buildings they searched has been sold for $850,000.

Investigators are also asking the court for the forfeiture of six high-end vehicles and another apartment building.

Four men, between the ages of 33 and 41, have been charged with numerous counts of possession for the purpose of trafficking

sanfish · Post by **sanfish** » Mar 19th, 2014, 3:52 pm

So rather than address the issue you brought up that I replied too. You know, were you tied to unrelated issues together attempting to make it look like marihuana was somehow inherently more dangerous than other legal substances you instead change direction and bring up what is obviously an illegal grow op? Really? I hope you realize that criminals couldn't profit off marijuana were it not for its falsely inflated price due directly to its prohibition/restrictive regulations . I hope you also realize that if some criminals are somehow circumventing regulations to profit off of then we should focus resources on that like we would for any other legal substance being taken advantage of rather than wholesale restrictions placed on everyone who isn't taking advantage of it.

The unspoken elephant in the room is the huge cost to taxpayers ensuring the sick get their medication because if the increased cost. This translates anywhere between $40/day to as much as $300-$400/day ( every day all year round forever) for the large percentage of patients whose income already qualifies them for subsidized medicine. Great work HC