Unverifiable Foreign DL's an Issue in BC

[goatboy]

There are a lot of countries that the RCMP can't access, in fact most. So we do what ? Stop out of continent tourists from driving in BC ? I don't think this will go over well at all.

If you can;t verify easily the validity of the drivers license, then yes, we should protect the lives of the Canadian drivers on the road and have them obtain some form of International Drivers license.

Countries that require a IDL:
http://www.theaa.com/motoring_advice/overseas/idp-requirements-by-country.html


If you to go to China:

Do Foreigners Need a Drive Permit to Drive in China?

Yes. Foreigners who have a driving license issued by their home countries can apply for a temporary driving license and drive in China without having to take related tests, according to a clause in a regulation issued by the Ministry of Public Security.

The regulation, which deals with the management of automobiles and foreigners that come to China for a short stay, stipulates that the valid period for the temporary driving license should not exceed the period marked in the entry and exit certificates, and the temporary license can be valid for three months at most. The valid period cannot be extended. In addition, the temporary driving license should be used together with the driving license issued at his or her home country and foreigners should always take these two licenses with them, in case traffic police ask them to show these licenses at any time.

Although foreigners who have obtained their driving license at home can get their temporary driving license in China without having to take related tests, they need to attend lessons to study Chinese road safety regulations, before they can drive in China. And they can only drive small cars or automatic-gear cars.

If foreigners will stay for a relatively long time in China, they can consider obtaining an official driving license in China. To do so, they should take their foreign driving licenses and valid ID cards to the automobile management bureau, fill up the automobile driving license application form, take the related physical examination, and attend a traffic regulation test. Once they have completed all these procedures and passed related tests and exams, they can get the official driving license issued by the Chinese government.

[my5cents]

If you can;t verify easily the validity of the drivers license, then yes, we should protect the lives of the Canadian drivers on the road and have them obtain some form of International Drivers license.

I appreciate what you are saying and in our culture we've become used to our authorities accessing confirming information virtually instantly. It's hard seems a strange situation where police stop a vehicle and the driver produces a document from a jurisdiction that the police can't readily verify. But that's the case for many many countries. Years ago, the same situation existed here. We had cardboard DL's, no photo's, no 24/7 direct access to Motor Vehicle Branch authorities for our own province.

For starters there is no such thing as an "International Driver's License". It is an "International Driving Permit", it's called that because it isn't a driver's license. It is a document that assists authorities to interpret the drivers own home country driver's license.

Police can't easily verify most out of country driver's licenses. The IDP is issued by Automobile Clubs, equivalent to the CAA, AAA etc. These clubs don't verify with the local licensing authorities before issuing the IDP, they just sight documents such as passports and the home driver's license, the same basic documents that the driver would likely have available to produce to the police who stop them.

A certain irony is that the RCMP are saying that (basically) it doesn't matter that the MVA allows holders of out of country driver's licenses to drive in BC, the RCMP need to be able to verify the validity of those licenses. BUT, if you, the holder of a BC license are stopped not possessing your license, even if you know your license number and even though the RCMP can readily verify all your information with a few key strokes, that doesn't matter, you haven't tendered your license you get ticketed, doesn't matter that they have verified you are a licensed driver, because the law says you must have the license available to be inspected by the police. But the Chinese driver who has his/her license to be inspected gets a ticket because the RCMP maintain they can't verify the validity of same.

"we should protect the lives of the Canadian drivers on the road and have them obtain some form of International Drivers license" How would obtaining, and carrying a document that interprets your home driver's license (ie, there is no testing required to obtain an International Driving PERMIT) protect the lives of Canadian drivers ?

If you to go to China: .................

Yes, China isn't a signatory to the Convention on Road Traffic, and as a result they can't/don't provide a means for their citizens to obtain a IDP. Also, unlike many countries, non Chinese vehicles can not be operated in China.

[goatboy]

So, your basic argument is that as a long a foreign driver provides a piece of paper and claims that it is a valid drivers license, then that is all that is required? There is no requirement on the police to verify that it is indeed a valid drivers license? And in this specific case, a drivers license of a country that does not have the same expectation if we were to visit there?

[my5cents]

So, your basic argument is that as a long a foreign driver provides a piece of paper and claims that it is a valid drivers license, then that is all that is required? There is no requirement on the police to verify that it is indeed a valid drivers license? And in this specific case, a drivers license of a country that does not have the same expectation if we were to visit there?

If we're talking about a Chinese DL, they actually have about the same level of security as our BC DL's have. In addition, every Chinese citizen has a citizenship card (ID) that also has the same security and cross references to the DL.

Very few out of country DLs are a piece of paper. The closest would be the International Driving Permits (ironically).

Should we take this action, just against Chinese drivers ? What about other foreign drivers that the RCMP can't readily check ?

What should the RCMP do if they pull you or me over for a minor violation and their computer system is down and they can't verify that the DL that we've produced is valid ? Make us walk ?

"And in this specific case, a drivers license of a country that does not have the same expectation if we were to visit there?" Well, if the position of the RCMP is accepted, then there would be no "legal" way for a Chinese citizen to drive in BC while visiting, we'd be worse than China, at least there, a Canadian can obtain a temporary Chinese DL to drive while there.

Is your position that as long as a foreign driver has a IDP they are OK to drive ? Or are you of the mind that our police must have a readily available means of checking the foreign DL ?

[goatboy]

Is your position that as long as a foreign driver has a IDP they are OK to drive ? Or are you of the mind that our police must have a readily available means of checking the foreign DL ?

My position is that the DL MUST, at minimum, be in English, be of sufficient quality to reasonably ensure that its genuine and should be backed up with a Passport. If the police officer is unable to reasonably decide that the license is indeed real and valid then they should have no other option but to deem it invalid. To do otherwise would be foolhardy, regardless of the inconvenience this may pose to our visitor.

I also believe that these requirement should be clearly and easily obtained by anyone wishing to drive here on a valid foreign license.

[Bsuds]

I would think that being able to read and understand English might be helpful as well (road signs come to mind)

[wanderingman]

the cops know whats up on this deal

[my5cents]

My position is that the DL MUST, at minimum, be in English, be of sufficient quality to reasonably ensure that its genuine and should be backed up with a Passport. If the police officer is unable to reasonably decide that the license is indeed real and valid then they should have no other option but to deem it invalid. To do otherwise would be foolhardy, regardless of the inconvenience this may pose to our visitor.

I also believe that these requirement should be clearly and easily obtained by anyone wishing to drive here on a valid foreign license.

Although the police in BC may not have a direct link to, for example, key in DL# (so and so) and get the details. They do have yearly books provided that show the security features of each foreign DL so they can with some assurance have a very good idea if the DL is legit.

[36Drew]

My position is that the DL MUST, at minimum, be in English

So then you think that we should disallow drivers visiting from Quebec from driving in BC?

[KL3-Something]

Although the police in BC may not have a direct link to, for example, key in DL# (so and so) and get the details. They do have yearly books provided that show the security features of each foreign DL so they can with some assurance have a very good idea if the DL is legit.

No. They don't. Those reference books exist. But they are expensive and if a member wants to have one they have to buy one on their own dime.

Verifiable DL's don't just mean that they can check them on a database. When the other jurisdiction (in this case some regions of China) enter into a reciprocal agreement it means that their issued licences incorporate common security features to thwart forgeries as much as possible. Like someone earlier said, give me an hour with a laser printer and a laminator and I can have everyone on this board a DL like the one shown in that photo. Just PM me your head shots. ;)

[KL3-Something]

My position is that the DL MUST, at minimum, be in English

So then you think that we should disallow drivers visiting from Quebec from driving in BC?

Nope. It takes me about ten seconds to verify a PQ DL through CPIC.

[my5cents]

No. They don't. Those reference books exist. But they are expensive and if a member wants to have one they have to buy one on their own dime.

Verifiable DL's don't just mean that they can check them on a database. When the other jurisdiction (in this case some regions of China) enter into a reciprocal agreement it means that their issued licences incorporate common security features to thwart forgeries as much as possible. Like someone earlier said, give me an hour with a laser printer and a laminator and I can have everyone on this board a DL like the one shown in that photo. Just PM me your head shots. ;)

Surely (ya, I know, "Don't call me Shirley") your OCC has a copy and they can read the text describing the holograms, their location etc.

And speaking of holograms, the would sorta void your second point of the laser printer and the laminator.

If we agree with the position that unless the police can verify by computer query every DL, then basically anyone from outside of North America, can't drive in BC.

[36Drew]

My position is that the DL MUST, at minimum, be in English

So then you think that we should disallow drivers visiting from Quebec from driving in BC?

Nope. It takes me about ten seconds to verify a PQ DL through CPIC.

There seems to be a rather serious disconnect between Goatboy's position, my response, and then yours. Goatboy is insisting that all drivers in BC must have english licenses, regardless of your ability to verify them through CPIC. I was pointing out that his position is less than stellar as PQ DLs are en Francais.

[goatboy]

There seems to be a rather serious disconnect between Goatboy's position, my response, and then yours. Goatboy is insisting that all drivers in BC must have english licenses, regardless of your ability to verify them through CPIC. I was pointing out that his position is less than stellar as PQ DLs are en Francais.

No, I'm insisting that all Foreign (read - Non-Canadian) drivers must have licenses that are in English so as to aid in the verification of their validity when they cannot be verified by computer. A Quebec license is easily verifiable through CPIC.

[goatboy]

And speaking of holograms, the would sorta void your second point of the laser printer and the laminator.

His point is, China has not entered into any agreement on common security features for DL's. Where's the hologram on this Chinese DL? It's a piece of cardboard that's been ripped off a perforated strip and then laminated, just like at Staples! Compare that to your own DL and tell me which one is less likely to be faked.