Unverifiable Foreign DL's an Issue in BC

[36Drew]

Its posts like this that kill me.Some persom whom has no clue posts completely clueless info such as this
A US Traffic guy stops u in the USA they have complete and easy access to your BCDL
end of story

Really? How so? Explain to us, oh great brainy one, how a police officer in one country can "verify" the driver's license of a stopped driver in another country?

[yaktak]

Really? How so? Explain to us, oh great brainy one, how a police officer in one country can "verify" the driver's license of a stopped driver in another country?

Actually, yes, they can. Through their access to CPIC. Just like police in Canada can verify DL's from all states through their access to NCIC.

I think KL-3 might be a little more knowledgeable about this than Drew.

[36Drew]

Actually, yes, they can. Through their access to CPIC. Just like police in Canada can verify DL's from all states through their access to NCIC.

So the officer *at the roadside* can verify that my BCDL is accurate, valid, and legitimate? Or do they need to take extra steps as in have a third-party verify the validity of my BCDL?

I'm not saying that what the RCMP in Richmond are doing is wrong - I'm saying that the person I was responding to is wrong in his thinking. There are additional means of verification - and as you've already stated, there's got to be more to the story than just "I don't read Cantonese ergo your license is invalid". The notion I was disgusted with (and to which I was replying to) was the suggestion that if the cop can't read the license they should have the jurisdiction to impound the car, lock up the driver, and fine them gobs of money. That notion, in and of itself, is disgustingly wrong.

And to those suggesting that extra piece of paper from CAA is worth anything - it's not. It's simply a translation. It's not a license in any way, shape, or form and does nothing to increase the validity of the government-issued DL the driver is carrying.

[36Drew]

I think KL-3 might be a little more knowledgeable about this than Drew.

He absolutely does. However, it is rather evident that several posting know so very little.

There's no International Driver's License. There's an International Driving Permit, but that's not a license but merely a translation into a standardized format and it's not "required".

Lack of being able to actually read the language on a license doesn't make it invalid, nor does being able to read the license actually make it valid. There are other means to validate a license (I don't know - suspend the driver's privileges until they can produce validation from their local consulate????). A traveller will have a visa or passport, that certainly will let you know just how long they've actually been here. Yet the blanket suggestion that just because an officer can't actually read your license (or use his in-car terminal to verify it) at the roadside should result in impoundment, imprisonment and fines is just....stupid.

[Captain Awesome]

After we moved here, my dad started driving right away. He got pulled over one day, and had to show his overseas license to an officer. License wasn't an international permit, and wasn't in English. They still somehow verified it (and by verified I mean figured out that this is indeed a driving license, for this class of vehicle, and it's his name on it). Took a while, but the officer came back, gave the license back, reminded him that soon he'll have to switch to a Canadian license, and gave a warning for something minor.

[wanderingman]

Really? How so? Explain to us, oh great brainy one, how a police officer in one country can "verify" the driver's license of a stopped driver in another country?

iam talking USA. A USA COP can verify your canadian DL in a bout 10-15 minutes no problem.I have had it done when in California .ever hear of phones and computers *removed*

[Smurf]

Yes but your country of origin probably had some sort of reciprocal agreement with Canada. Apparently China doesn't an that could be the whole problem. The Chinese government isn't known for worrying about it's people.

[my5cents]

Yes but your country of origin probably had some sort of reciprocal agreement with Canada. Apparently China doesn't an that could be the whole problem. The Chinese government isn't known for worrying about it's people.

My position on this whole matter is, that the law that the RCMP have used to ticket these drivers is the Motor Vehicle Act of BC and nowhere in that act, "the rule book" does it say that only certain out of country licenses are valid in BC. The RCMP are overstepping their authority.

How would you like it if you were stopped driving back from the beach, driving with bare feet, and the RCMP issued you a ticket for that violation ? (It's legal to drive with bare feet) When interviewed they say "it is very dangerous to drive with bare feet". I may or may not be, but unless there is a law, there's nothing they can do.

They hammered a grandfather for being drunk while a passenger being the adult holder of a license while his grandson drove him to the store on a learner's license. The RCMP thought it was wrong to have a person who had been drinking be the "adult holder". But there is no law.

There is no place in the MVA that says only people driving on certain countries licenses can operate vehicles in BC. In fact I can't find any sections that talks about the International Driving Permit (not a license, just a interpretation assist document).

A reciprocal agreement comes into play when a person from a foreign country wants to convert his/her out of country license to a BC license when they become a permanent resident here. If there is a reciprocal agreement, and the applicant has sufficient experience they get a BC license with very limited testing, if not from a country with a reciprocal agreement they are given more intensive testing. Nothing to do with the RCMP.

They say "well how can we confirm the license if valid". OK, how could BC police confirm a BC license was valid 50 years ago. There were no computers, we didn't have photo's on our licenses, that didn't make the license invalid. The Motor Vehicle Branch (pre ICBC) was open Mon thru Fri 8AM - 4 PM, so nobody to phone.

As for those who have been saying Chinese drivers are such bad drivers they shouldn't be allowed to drive, just look around at some of our elderly local drivers.

[Smurf]

Apparently the courts disagree with you. There must be some reason that the validity of the licence is reasonably suspect.

[my5cents]

Apparently the courts disagree with you. There must be some reason that the validity of the licence is reasonably suspect.

Your statement : "There must be some reason that the validity of the licence is reasonably suspect." Says a lot. I would hope that there is "some reason" and I would hope that the fact that the driver was in possession of a Chinese license isn't the only reason.

I agree with you that my position is in conflict with that of the courts. The RCMP's position and the fact that the courts have back them has been widely reported in the media (this example from The Province):

Local Mounties say they have no way of verifying if the information on the licence is correct because they have no access to Chinese driver licensing information.

For that reason, the RCMP have deemed the licences invalid — a position that, the Mounties say, has been backed up by the courts after numerous drivers unsuccessfully challenged the policy.

This sound like the RCMP's position is, "if we can't verify information on a driver's license with the licensing office in the originating country, we are deeming the license invalid.

The statement : "backed up by the courts", doesn't do a lot for me. It is very likely that the case would be heard in a "Traffic Hearing Room" before a Justice of the Peace. There have been many instances of convictions on very flimsy evidence in these "courts".

I continually fall back on the "rule book". In this case the legislation that is the basis for this type of driving charge, the Motor Vehicle Act of British Columbia (MVA). I defy anyone to show me the section in the MVA that states that there is a requirement that there must be a reciprocal agreement, or a means of proving the validity of a driver's license.

Section 34 of the MVA appears to be the only governing legislation and it seems pretty clear.

Look at it this way. If there is a statutory requirement that police must have a means of checking the validity of a driver's license from foreign countries, how would that affect the millions of tourists that come to BC and operate vehicles while here. Yes, tourists from the USA don't fall into this category, but the tourists and students from hundreds of countries would be affected.

The need to verify these out of country driver's licenses happens on the street, at the time a vehicle is pulled over, so we are talking a need for virtually instant contact with the verifying authority. I can guarantee the needed communication to most if not all, off continent jurisdictions, isn't that available.

[LoneWolf_53]

At the end of the day, your interpretation means nothing, only one that counts is that of a judge.

[Smurf]

So true and if we were privy to all the information we would probably find out there was good reason.

[goatboy]

At the end of the day, your interpretation means nothing, only one that counts is that of a judge.

That's the thing with the law, it's open to many, many different interpretations.

The law states that a valid license from another country is required. If there is questions regarding the validity of the license, what would you have the RCMP do?

[Smurf]

Take the driver off the road the same as if there was a question about a BC drivers licence.

[my5cents]

That's the thing with the law, it's open to many, many different interpretations.

The law states that a valid license from another country is required. If there is questions regarding the validity of the license, what would you have the RCMP do?

Yes and if there is a reason to suspect the validity of the license, action should be taken. However if the basis for the concern is that the RCMP can't type the DL info into their computer and get an answer, I suggest that isn't a valid reason.

If the reason is that the RCMP feel they have the right to ticket, and stop from driving, anyone who is driving on a license from a country that the RCMP can't verify on their computer system then there is a big problem.

There are a lot of countries that the RCMP can't access, in fact most. So we do what ? Stop out of continent tourists from driving in BC ? I don't think this will go over well at all.

Here's an excerpt from the "Welcome BC" web site (info for people moving to BC)
http://www.welcomebc.ca/Live/Daily-Life ... cence.aspx

Driver's Licence
All drivers in British Columbia must have a valid (legal) driver’s licence. If you are a new B.C. resident, and have a valid driver’s licence from your country or from another province of Canada, you can use your licence for 90 days. You must apply for a B.C. licence within 90 days.

If you are a visitor, you can drive in B.C. for up to 6 months with a valid driver’s licence from your country. If you hold an International Driving Permit, you must also carry the accompanying foreign licence.

If you have a licence from the United States, Austria, Germany, Switzerland, Japan, South Korea or another province of Canada, you may not need to take the knowledge test or road test. You can apply for a B.C. licence right away.

If your driver’s licence is from anywhere else, you will need to take a knowledge test and a road test. Insurance Corporation of British Columbia (ICBC) driver licensing offices have free books you can study for the knowledge test. They are in English only.