The TWU Controversy

[maryjane48]

It does not mean that the Church cannot influence the State.

why should people that believe in a fairy tale influence the state?

[maryjane48]

nor are they imposing anything against the Charter.

is it against canadian law for consenting adults to have premarital sex?

[simnut]

why should people that believe in a fairy tale ........

So, now we see the real reason behind your "argument". Your stand is only based on what YOU believe. If it were up to you then, freedom of religion should not be a part of the Charter of Rights, and that is the reason you should not even attempt to use the Charter in your discussion. You don't "believe" in the charter.

You show me how a lawyer that believes in a "fairy tale", can influence society? If you would take your emotion out of this, you would realize that any lawyer/judge must follow Canadian law, must follow the Charter of Rights, must follow a set standard of conduct.....or they wouldn't last long in the "business".

is it against canadian law for consenting adults to have premarital sex?

Nope...not at all. But I wouldn't let you and your girlfriend have sex in the middle of my living room either while I'm trying to watch the hockey game tonight. Oh, I know.....it's against the Canadian law to ban two consenting adults from doing that, but I would call the cops and I'm quite sure you would be arrested. Try and have premarital sex in the middle of a school playground today...see what happens. Actually, try that even if your married!!! Then try and use the Charter or Canadian law in your court case.......I can predict if your going to win or LOSE!

[Donald G]

To Simnut ...

Freedom of Religion in Canada DOES NOT include the right to refuse to accept that FULLY LEGAL same sex marriages are any different than male - female marriages. You may not like it but same sex marriages, including the adoption of children IS presently included in the legal definition of marriage in Canada.

Forcing a legal marriage to break up in order to go to law school is absolutely asinine. Somewhere along the line of regressing to burn witches at the stake.

[simnut]

To Simnut ...

Freedom of Religion in Canada DOES NOT include the right to refuse to accept that FULLY LEGAL same sex marriages are any different than male - female marriages. You may not like it but same sex marriages, including the adoption of children IS presently included in the legal definition of marriage in Canada.

I'm not refusing to accept the fact that same sex marriages are legal in Canada, it's there...and I'm fine with it. What people do is up to them. I'm saying I don't agree with it. TWO different things.

If TWU refused to accept the "concept" of gays/lesbians, do you think they would even allow students of that sexual orientation to even enroll? As stated before, MANY gays/lesbians have attended TWU and graduated with no harm done to their sexuality!!!!!! Sure, TWU don't agree with it, but then they don't agree with premarital sex either, along with drugs...alcohol....porn....! But everyone has jumped on the "anti-gay" bandwagon without really understanding and seeing how TWU is actually much less discriminatory towards homosexuals as the gay community and their "supporters" are towards them.


Everyone says that homosexuality is what the person is, and it is protected by Canadian law and the Charter. Now, apply that to a religious person. The trouble with this discussion, is that many are not willing to even consider that application.

[Donald G]

To Simnut ...

Much clearer. Thanks.

[Merry]

why should people that believe in a fairy tale influence the state?

Because, in a democracy, each and every citizen has the right to try to influence the State - even those folks we may not agree with.

[hobbyguy]

http://www.ask.com/wiki/Theocracy?o=2801&qsrc=999

Not much democracy in that discussion. Even Israel is only a democracy IF you are Jewish.

[simnut]

[url]

Not much democracy in that discussion.

Not much democracy based ideas in your discussion either Lol

[Glacier]

Even Israel is only a democracy IF you are Jewish.

[Rosieodonell]

I think this last one went over my head. What does the picture of hitler represent?

[Glacier]

I think this last one went over my head. What does the picture of hitler represent?

I've heard this line of reasoning before, Mein Führer.

[GordonH]

Bumped

Update, school hit another hurdle today.

http://www.castanet.net/news/Canada/122 ... rinity-Law

[maryjane48]

To Simnut ...

Freedom of Religion in Canada DOES NOT include the right to refuse to accept that FULLY LEGAL same sex marriages are any different than male - female marriages. You may not like it but same sex marriages, including the adoption of children IS presently included in the legal definition of marriage in Canada.

Forcing a legal marriage to break up in order to go to law school is absolutely asinine. Somewhere along the line of regressing to burn witches at the stake.

wow you took words out my mouth , excellent post don

[hobbyguy]

I think what a lot of pro theocracy folks don't get is the fine distinctions of where their rights of religious belief end is when they step on the rights of someone else. It isn't really "freedom of religion" that is the intention, it is freedom of religious belief.

Don't believe in gay marriage? Fine. You have the right to that belief. But you do not have the right to impose that belief on others.

Don't believe in freedom of choice? Same comment.

Don't believe in the separation of church and state? Same comment.

TWU has become a quasi public facility by applying for and accepting public money.

Democratic Society can choose as to what accreditation TWU get. Law is clearly NOT an area where such an institution should be accredited, as they have taken a position visa vi gay marriage and sexuality that is illegal for most organizations, the only reason they get away with it is that society chooses to recognize that freedom of religious belief.

Canadian law is a democratic and inclusive basic function of our society. TWU chooses to be exclusive and not recognize the full range of democratic rights of others. If TWU chooses to teach "Christian law" - they are free to do so, but democratic society is also free to not accredit that teaching for application within our society.

I am free to advocate for the "Flat Earth Society" and teach that to those that choose to believe it. I will not get accreditation within our society for that - fair enough, I am free to believe what I want. As are those that choose to follow Flat Earth teachings. We just won't be allowed to teach our courses in schools, or get grants to study "Flat Earth Theory" etc. Nothing wrong with that.

I also have to wonder what the supporters of TWU would have to say if TWU were a Madrassa and wanted to teach an alternate form of law - Sharia - as part of their courses, and then wanted accreditation. It is the same thing, the purpose of legal training is to learn the democratic legal system, and the laws that flow out of it, not alternates.