The TWU Controversy

[occasional thoughts]

From pepsilover,

Wonder what people will be saying when an Islamic school or university starts up and insists on the same type of rules?

You're too fixated on Islamic stuff. Most of us that you fear and attack on here are aghast at any hint of "Sharia" law being allowed in our country, me vehemently included. Sharia as I understand it and see it practiced in Iran and elsewhere is religious law adopted as civil law; in other words, no separation of church and state, one of the fundamental tenets of our system and, notwithstanding the Christian zealots in the U.S., that country (and many others) as well.

Yes, individuals who don't like the TWU code of conduct don't have to seek admission, but law societies don't need to accredit its law school either.

[logicalview]

Sharia as I understand it and see it practiced in Iran and elsewhere is religious law adopted as civil law; in other words, no separation of church and state, one of the fundamental tenets of our system and, notwithstanding the Christian zealots in the U.S., that country (and many others) as well.
.

And politically correct zealots in Ontario...but of course, if it's Islam, then the catch all freedom of religion is used as an excuse by the PC crowd to look the other way. So therefore if you want to have prayer in schools, just make sure its Muslim prayers. And make sure those girls are separated and put in the back of the room during prayer, especially if they are menstruating. That's totally ok. As long as it's Muslims doing the discriminating. Now if its Christians wanting religious freedom...oh boy look out...full force PC hurricane of social justice.

http://torontolife.com/city/allah-in-the-cafeteria/

[rustled]

It doesn't necessarily follow, though, that those who object to any particular stripe of religious zealotry must therefore adhere to some other form of rigid ideology, such as political correctness.

[occasional thoughts]

I take umbrage when my comments are twisted or otherwise misstated, as logicalview has done. Religious zealots of all stripes and everywhere are auguring for religious law to hold supreme; I despise every single one of them, Christian and Islam & etc.

I don't know what PCs do or advocate, but they are not the law, and our law when applied in courts does not allow discrimination by one stripe and forbid it in same circumstances by another stripe.

[Glacier]

I don't know what PCs do or advocate, but they are not the law, and our law when applied in courts does not allow discrimination by one stripe and forbid it in same circumstances by another stripe.

That's actually not true. Shariah Law is already here. 25 years ago the Muslim Brotherhood had a meeting on how they would change the U.S. and bring in Shariah. They decided that the key was through education. Today the Muslim Brotherhood is in charge of writing the U.S. curriculum on the history of Islam, and no none-Muslim can object to their glorified version of Islamic history lest they be called an Islamophobe (a word made up by the Muslim Brotherhood to squash free speech that isn't Shariah compliant). The courts allow this. Can you imagine if today only Christians could write the history material glorifying the Crusades and residential schools? The courts wouldn't allow it.

[occasional thoughts]

Glacier, I'm not following how what you say makes Sharia the law of the land. I'm not even going to go out on a bad limb for the moment and say you are wrong about the education curriculum because I don't know; but I've never heard that. But it seems doubtful on the face of it, and especially so only because no central authority writes education curriculum in Canada (provincial) and I doubt if there is a central education authority in the U.S. with its rabid states rights approach.

[Glacier]

No nation is 100% Sharia, even Saudi Arabia, but most countries in the West are moving toward Sharia.

[occasional thoughts]

I'm not interested in Bill Warner PhD. Who is he? What is his motivation, his bias?

What steps has the Canadian Parliament taken towards Sharia? None that I know of.

What steps has the U.S. Congress taken towards Sharia? None that I know of.

I am vaguely aware that the Ontario Legislature may have done something stupid in that direction, but I don't think it amounted to anything, thank god.

[rustled]

There's a line somewhere between awareness and hyper-vigilance.
When people become hyper-vigilant, they see a wolf behind every bush, and when they too often cry "wolf" where there's none, the good people of Everytown become accustomed to ignoring their warnings. Worse, though, is that these same good people stop paying attention to what they really should be paying attention to.

The real issue here, I think, is whether or not there is a legitimate legal basis on which TWU should be denied accreditation.

(Sorry about the smilies. I got a little giddy when I saw how many had managed to escape custody.)

[Glacier]

I'm not interested in Bill Warner PhD. Who is he? What is his motivation, his bias?

What steps has the Canadian Parliament taken towards Sharia? None that I know of.

What steps has the U.S. Congress taken towards Sharia? None that I know of.

I am vaguely aware that the Ontario Legislature may have done something stupid in that direction, but I don't think it amounted to anything, thank god.

Bill Warner is a scientist, so he deals with facts. Most people deal with feelings, so he's not for everyone. He's only one of the most knowledgeable people on earth about Islam.

Congress is largely irrelevant. The Brotherhood knows that the government is beholden to the courts. It is the courts and the Human Rights Tribunals that hold the real power over such matters.

As for Canada, "what begins in Britain tends to influence other nations, in particular English-speaking nations and especially countries with a British legal precedent and a Commonwealth tradition. In other words, there’s a good chance it will come to Canada and activists are already pushing for it." http://www.torontosun.com/2014/03/27/al ... -precedent

An interesting interview with Bill Warner:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=czBiWm3ljv0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fD1Huki53L0

[JLives]

That's actually not true. Shariah Law is already here. 25 years ago the Muslim Brotherhood had a meeting on how they would change the U.S. and bring in Shariah. They decided that the key was through education. Today the Muslim Brotherhood is in charge of writing the U.S. curriculum on the history of Islam, and no none-Muslim can object to their glorified version of Islamic history lest they be called an Islamophobe (a word made up by the Muslim Brotherhood to squash free speech that isn't Shariah compliant). The courts allow this. Can you imagine if today only Christians could write the history material glorifying the Crusades and residential schools? The courts wouldn't allow it.

Do you have a reputable link for that that's not a YouTube clip? My understanding is alot of the cirriculum and text book changes originate in Texas. I find it hard to believe education boards trying to get creationism into science classes would allow anything resembling an agenda of Islam into schools as well.

[Glacier]

Do you have a reputable link for that that's not a YouTube clip? My understanding is alot of the cirriculum and text book changes originate in Texas. I find it hard to believe education boards trying to get creationism into science classes would allow anything resembling an agenda of Islam into schools as well.

http://www.breitbart.com/big-government ... -standards
http://www.clarionproject.org/analysis/ ... ic-schools

[pepsilover]

Do you have a reputable link for that that's not a YouTube clip? My understanding is alot of the cirriculum and text book changes originate in Texas. I find it hard to believe education boards trying to get creationism into science classes would allow anything resembling an agenda of Islam into schools as well.

Is Harvard a reputable link to learn something from? Or USA Today? You can start with Harvard, which most people envision as having rich young men and women with nice hair and school sweaters that match their nice pants. Problem is there's still money there, but a great deal of it is coming from oil and muslims, as are their programs (Saudi princes even!). The problem is you demand information and question sources but then you don't read the ones given to you. Maybe you should so you know what others are talking about is totally legit; the majority of people just choose to bury their heads in the sand because it FEELS better.

Yes I realize Harvard is not in the public school system. I said 'start there'. You might be awfully surprised at who has the most money invested in Harvard these days. Here is one of them:

http://www.islamicstudies.harvard.edu/research/

And some of the news clips are interesting, note the third one down debating Shariah:

http://www.islamicstudies.harvard.edu/news-archive/

04/22/2015
“Debating Sharia Law, Digitally” Harvard Magazine article featuring Intisar A. Rabb.

Very interesting site if you are so inclined to want to learn, although I realize the majority of you don't want to. But if even one person reads the links, that makes one more informed person on the planet.

This is just one of thousands and thousands of examples. I use Harvard because most people have a pre-conceived idea of it being some Ivy League school full of spoiled white rich kids. Well it's still full of spoiled rich kids, but a great deal of them are muslim and pushing their Islamic agenda now, much of it under another guise, but some of it not, some is just right out there. Isn't that RELIGION?

Here's a fun story about something that happened at Harvard. Six muslim women wanted to have the gymnasium all to themselves so they kicked the men out. This was back in 2008! Bet nobody here even knew about it. 8 years ago this was happening. Oh, and the 'call to prayer'? That is five times a day at Harvard too.

http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/hea ... -gym_N.htm

<snip> BOSTON (AP) — Harvard University has banned men from one of its gyms for a few hours a week, a move to accomodate Muslim women who, for religious and cultural reasons, cannot exercise comfortably in their presence.

The policy is already unpopular with many on campus, however, including some women who consider it sexist.

"I think that it's incorrect in a college setting to institute a policy in which half of the campus gets wronged or denied a resource that's supposed to be for everyone," said student Lucy Caldwell, who also wrote a column in The Harvard Crimson newspaper critical of the new hours. <snip>

There there's THIS! From 9 years ago! 2007.

http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/nat ... ools_N.htm

Some say schools giving Muslims special treatment

Updated 7/26/2007 11:04 AM

<snip> Some public schools and universities are granting Muslim requests for prayer times, prayer rooms and ritual foot baths, prompting a debate on whether Islam is being given preferential treatment over other religions.

The University of Michigan at Dearborn is planning to build foot baths for Muslim students who wash their feet before prayer. An elementary school in San Diego created an extra recess period for Muslim pupils to pray.

At George Mason University in Fairfax, Va., Muslim students using a "meditation space" laid out Muslim prayer rugs and separated men and women in accordance with their Islamic beliefs.

Critics see a double standard and an organized attempt to push public conformance with Islamic law.

"What (school officials) are doing … is to give Muslim students religious benefits that they do not give any other religion right now," says Richard Thompson, president and chief counsel at the Thomas More Law Center, an advocacy group for Christians.
<snip>

more at link

[rustled]

Interesting piece on Snopes about this question, re: how some California schools chose to use the curriculum (mandate's to teach about the various religions, so the students have some understanding of them in historical context. But...).

A few quotes:

We think the Byron School District erred badly on the side of liberalism in how it chose to teach this segment and that it displayed an appalling lack of sensitivity to the fears that even more will be drawn to the fundamentalist Islamic faiths that spawned the terrorist attacks on America if Islam is made attractive enough, but that's a judgment call, not a matter of fact. What can be argued is whether the line separating teaching about a religion and teaching the religion itself was blurred by how the district chose to fulfill the Islamic history element of the Grade 7 social studies curriculum. Whether that line was actually crossed remains a matter of debate (the district is not at this time addressing charges that it had students memorize Koran verses), but it must be said if the shoe were on the other foot — had the portions of world history centering on the spread of Christianity been taught in similar manner — the outcry would have been thunderous.

This controversy shouldn't be about Islam vs. Christianity or "our religion" vs. "their religion," but rather about the appropriateness of any religious teachings in public schools.

Is it possible to teach about a people and their place in history without also teaching the belief system that influenced them? We don't know. But we do know every effort has to be made in that direction if the one is to be attempted.

http://www.snopes.com/politics/religion/islam.asp

But while this is worth exploring, it doesn't answer the question of whether or not TWU should be denied accreditation for its student policy.

[rustled]

Harvard has a Christian club, too. Seems like a fairly inclusive place.
http://www.hcs.harvard.edu/~christ/
Their students, regardless of faith, are graduating from a school with accreditation.

Is the TWU expectation that all students adhere to a specific code of conduct a legitimate reason to deny them accreditation? The grads would still have to pass the bar.