No trial for CPR-stopping cop?

[Catz]

as i previously stated, given that the emts were as close as they were, 20 to 90 seconds away, and the cop didn't get a pulse, and the attending civilian applying the first aid felt cpr should continue until the emts arrived, the cop should have let the emts make the call.

You need to take a course on basic CPR. You cop did everything right.

[A_Britishcolumbian]

i haven't taken any first aid since the 70's, and consequently am neither obliged or inclined to offer first aid.

from a logical perspective though, i just don't get why the cop would insert himself into the process for those few moments.

i am not at all convinced that the cops decision made any difference in whether the victim lived or died, but it still confuses me why the cop would make the call he did.

[Catz]

i haven't taken any first aid since the 70's, and consequently am neither obliged or inclined to offer first aid.

from a logical perspective though, i just don't get why the cop would insert himself into the process for those few moments.

i am not at all convinced that the cops decision made any difference in whether the victim lived or died, but it still confuses me why the cop would make the call he did.

Since you like to question everything, my advice to you is go take a course and there is your answer. How many times do you have to be told the basics of CPR. If you are confused, then educate yourself.

[simnut]

from a logical perspective though, i just don't get why the cop would insert himself into the process for those few moments.

i am not at all convinced that the cops decision made any difference in whether the victim lived or died, but it still confuses me why the cop would make the call he did.

When an officer arrives on the scene, that officer WILL take charge. Of course the first thing he will do is attend injured persons, check the situation...and make HIS call on it.....it's his job and responsibility. If he didn't, he would get "bashed" because the man died because he didn't do his job. I think this is a situation where there were no winners.....or way to win.

[steven lloyd]

Since you like to question everything, my advice to you is go take a course and there is your answer.

But then he/she would have to go looking for some other story to provide him/her with an excuse to bash a cop.

[cutter7]

as i previously stated, given that the emts were as close as they were, 20 to 90 seconds away, and the cop didn't get a pulse, and the attending civilian applying the first aid felt cpr should continue until the emts arrived, the cop should have let the emts make the call.

I have taken first aid many many times over over the last 40 years including industrial first aid. the person giving first aid should have kept administering until the paramedics showed up ,, that is if he was able. cpr takes a lot out of the person giving it and they cannot always continue without being spelled off.

A very unfortunate incident, I doubt anyone would intentionally call off help unless they believed it pointless

[Smurf]

You have actually been told to continue CPR if the person shows some vitals. I have never heard of that. Also did the officer have any idea how long the EMT's were going to be. The patient should have been continuously monitored and it is even possible that was broken up by the arrival of the EMT"S.

My understanding is that if you continue CPR at all after the person is breathing etc on their own you can throw them out of rhythm and do more harm.

[atenbacon]

Discontinuing CPR when there are signs of life is the correct thing to do, someone with 40 years of first aid experience should easily know this. Another thing someone with that much First aid experience should know is that performing CPR on a patient that is alive can cause death, so if the patient is displaying any signs of life (In this case a gasp) proper First aid theory nessitates a full reassessment prior to continuing CPR.

Just guessing here seeing as nobody here was at the scene but assessing a patient in the heat of an accident scene, sirens, people around etc. would be difficult at best. 20 seconds wouldn't be a time frame too out of range to stop CPR in order to clarify and reassess if there were indeed signs of life over and above the gasp the officer thought he had heard. Stopping for 90 seconds sounds like someone might be pusing it a bit on there timeframe... If I were to guess the timing might have been somewhere in the midde? Once paramedics are there they most definately have the qualifications to take over from a Level-2 Industrial First Aid attendant and a Police Officer.

I am only guessing, but I think the people involved did their best in the situation they were placed into, the chances of being revived and making any sort of a full recovery thanks to CPR is what, about 20%? Hardly cause to bring anyone to trial over... If charges were to be made, why would anyone bother to try to save anyone?

[Smurf]

Exactly. At work isolated in the north we responded to a number of public vehicle accidents on the road. The company actually told us to stop because they were worried about liability since they had paid for our training and in many cases we were doing it during work hours. We fought it as no one ever wants to leave someone in trouble when you might have the training to save them. We asked the company if they felt they would be in any less trouble refusing to help and someone died because of it. We actually had a well equipped ambulance on site. The lawyers agreed and we responded accordingly from then on. Hopefully people can feel free to use their training to the best of their ability and not have to worry about repercussions.

[Symbonite]

damn if you do...damn if you dont...

this is why no one stops to help anyone anymore....cause if you do or dont...you can get in trouble.

[simnut]

damn if you do...damn if you dont...

this is why no one stops to help anyone anymore....cause if you do or dont...you can get in trouble.

The Good Samaritan Act will cover ANYONE that stops to help ANYONE in need of medical etc assistance. If you, an untrained citizen stops to help...to the best of your ability.....you will not get into legal trouble. But there is a catch....

IF you have any type of first aid/medical training, and you do something wrong regarding what you've been trained for or to the level you've been trained for...THEN you can get into legal trouble.

Here is a scenario:

You come upon an accident and the driver is laying in the ditch. One of the basics of first aid is the ABC's, making sure the patient has a pulse and is breathing. Good so far. Then you notice extensive bleeding from an artery, and apply a pressure point or a tourniquet to either stop or slow the bleeding. Basic first aid. You do this as you were trained, even in your very basic first aid course. No legal trouble.....

Things can change real fast though. The driver is quite close to his/her car...and it begins to burn. We've always been told...don't move the "patient"....but i'll bet everyone on here will move the driver ...a "life over limb" situation. Or you want to roll the driver on their side to enhance their breathing.....and find extended bowls (intestines exposed and in the dirt). Basic first aid courses don't cover that, but you will do what it takes (using common sense) to allow the driver to breath better. Now you are getting into a area you are not trained for, therefore no legal trouble either....but doing your best to save a life and covered by the Good Samaritan Act.

[StraitTalk]

That is very correct.

You do NOT do CPR if the patient is breathing and has a pulse.
If they have a pulse, but no breathing, they you do the breathing only.
Why the hell would you do CPR on someone that has a pulse and is breathing?
If they respond to the CPR, you stand back, and continuously reassess ..the condition can change for many reasons.

Just wanted to mention that CPR protocol has changed and that what you have quoted isn't exactly the current practice. This isn't a black and white issue and as someone who has performed both successful and unsuccessful CPR on several occasions I feel it would be quite problematic to press charges against an officer who by his best judgement made a decision for the situation which could have changed at any moment, such as when medics arrived.

The Good Samaritan act covers his *bleep* anyways; there is no case here. (Unless he is an exception under:

2 Section 1 does not apply if the person rendering the medical services or aid

(a) is employed expressly for that purpose, or

which I don't believe a police officer would be.

[FreeRights]

i haven't taken any first aid since the 70's, and consequently am neither obliged or inclined to offer first aid.

from a logical perspective though, i just don't get why the cop would insert himself into the process for those few moments.

i am not at all convinced that the cops decision made any difference in whether the victim lived or died, but it still confuses me why the cop would make the call he did.

Where you differ from other people is when you stumble upon a situation where you are legitimately uneducated in (in this case, first aid) you neglect to learn anything about it and question anything without paying attention to best-practices. Even if your outside-the-box thinking were correct in this case (its not), the police officer would still have been "right" at the time if he were following best practices.

[A_Britishcolumbian]

i get the impression several people commenting here did not read genesisgt's excellent contribution, from which we are shown the rcmp member did not detect a pulse and as well "After reviewing the entirety of the investigative file, Crown Counsel has concluded that the available evidence does not provide a sufficient basis for proving that the officer did not have reasonable cause for directing that CPR to be discontinued."

[Smurf]

Where does it clearly say anywhere that he did not detect a pulse? The little bit of information we have is far from enough to make any determination. Obviously crown council who should have had all the information available thought it proved he made the right decision. If you have ever been in this position you would realize that they are never really black and white unless the person sits up and talks to you and even then you watch them closely till they are checked out by the proper people. Probably the best thing the officer did was make a definite decision using the information available to him. Was it right or wrong, we will never know. Did it make a difference to the outcome we will never know. Will it play on him for the rest of his life, probably. Hopefully it will not cause him to hesitate to make a decision in a future situation.