Fraser Institute slams Provincial Government

[GordonH]

http://www.castanet.net/news/BC/117447/BC-s-hidden-debt

FI gives BC Government a little slap on the back of the head(a Gibbs), of course what fallout if any will happen.

[gman313]

I had no idea here I thought we were doing so well lol. This was a great read and very interesting.

Time to pull my head out of you know were.

[Rosieodonell]

Wow,

It took 8 years for this to finally be said. I and I know tonnes of others have said this. The Lieberals have been screwing BC for years. They have been playing the shell game hiding money from the tax payers. Lower taxes, raise fees to match and hire private corporations at 3 times the cost.

[flamingfingers]

It only comes as 'news' to the people who have had their heads in the sand for close to 12 years.....

I am truly gobsmacked that the FRASER INSTITUTE has finally had the conjones to speak to an issue that has been treated like the elephant in the room by the MSM!!

[butcher99]

http://www.castanet.net/news/BC/117447/BC-s-hidden-debt

FI gives BC Government a little slap on the back of the head(a Gibbs), of course what fallout if any will happen.

I think you could go back through any number of pre election threads in this forum and see that point over and over and over. I am not sure how a 1.9 billion dollar deficit can be counted as balanced but there it is.

[bob vernon]

Christy, and Gordon before her, have borrowed tons of money to benefit the wealthy for years. There is currently a BC Hydro line being built up the west side of the province to a place called Bob Quinn. It's called the North West Transmission Line. Google it. It is in its third year of construction and will go over a billion dollars later this year. There is a "Liberal friendly" mine at the end of the line. This is a prime reason that your Hydro bill is going to soar in the next few years.

Another contributing factor is a series of contracts signed in about 2008, before the economic downturn. BC Hyrdo was ordered to sign deals with small "run of river" hydro projects to purchase their electricity. For about double what it now costs BC Hydro. With the demand for electricity down in the US, the price of electricity has gone down sharply, but those 2008 contracts are now costing BC Hydro more than they can make selling it to us. So the rates you pay have to go up.

[maple leaf]

Quebec: $199.9B or $24,448 per resident
Manitoba: $30.8B or $24,236 per resident
Ontario: $271.8B or $19,990 per resident
Newfoundland and Labrador: $9.1B or $17,392 per resident
New Brunswick: $11,7B or $15,605 per resident
Nova Scotia: $14.5B or $15,384 per resident
Prince Edward Island: $1.9B or $13,669 per resident
BC: 62.3B or $13,533 per resident
Saskatchewan: $4.5B or $4,093 per resident
Alberta: $9.5B or $2,336 per resident

The article fails to tell us how much contractual debt each province has over and above the debt they carry on the books.BC's contractual debt ,the last time I looked was around 96 billion,over and above our debt of 62.3 billion on the books.So to compare the numbers above ,you need to know how much each of the other provinces have hidden debt in contractual obligations . Have they run up their contractual obligations to the same extent that BC has, or have they done it a different way, which would show on their books, making their provincial debt seem higher than BC,opposed to hidding contractual debt that is not carried on the books like BC does.

[Donald G]

B.C. has the third LOWEST debt ratio among the provinces of Canada.

Those who see normal debt as a curse know little about economics. They seem to think it is better to have no job because you refuse to go into debt to buy a vehicle to get to work.

[butcher99]

B.C. has the third LOWEST debt ratio among the provinces of Canada.

Those who see normal debt as a curse know little about economics. They seem to think it is better to have no job because you refuse to go into debt to buy a vehicle to get to work.

as long as you don't bother to count all the debt that the government leaves off because of "future obligations". It is like taking out a mortgage on your house or buying a car and saying that does not count as debt because it is just a future obligation to pay.

Nope, not debt at all.

[Donald G]

To Butcher99 ...

That would be the NDP way of looking at the whole situation. If I can sell my house for more than the equity I have into it and the interest I am paying is four cents on each dollar of income I have coming in what is the problem?

I guess that the NDP philosophy would dictate that the people in BC and the other seven provinces who owe more money than BC are financially irresponsible? It is no wonder that the NDP get sent packing after most elections.

[maryjane48]

To don g This thread is about What The title implies and If what you think is true then why not go a trillio In debt ?

[butcher99]

To Butcher99 ...

That would be the NDP way of looking at the whole situation. If I can sell my house for more than the equity I have into it and the interest I am paying is four cents on each dollar of income I have coming in what is the problem?

I guess that the NDP philosophy would dictate that the people in BC and the other seven provinces who owe more money than BC are financially irresponsible? It is no wonder that the NDP get sent packing after most elections.

First off, you still have that debt and must count it if applying for a loan. It is still debt no matter the interest rate. If you go for a new mortgage your payments will be figured in to see if you can afford more payments no matter how much it is worth on paper. You do not get to count just what you pay in interest payments this year as debt. You count the total amount of debt.

Second, these will never be sold for more than the equity we have in them. We paid way more for these projects than we would have had to because they are PPP projects to start with. Where will the profit come from?

Third, if you factor in all the billions BC is not counting we are not number three at all.

you are grasping at straws to justify not counting debt as debt so your so called fiscally responsible government looks better than in reality it is.

[Donald G]

To Butcher99 ...

I would be amazed if, like every other political body, our provincial government did not attempt to paint itself in the best financial light possible. I would be equally amazed if those who do not support our present provincial government did not try to paint our present provincial government in the worst financial light possible, regardless of what the facts might be. It is the nature of the beast.

As long as seven out of ten similar provincial governments have decided that they can safely place their provinces in more demanding financial situations I will ASSUME that those handling the B.C. fiscal policies and making the financial decisions are acting reasonably.

In politics there always seem to be three truths. The governments truth. The oppositions truth. And the real truth as identified by a team of financial auditors with access to the facts. Using the exact same figures everyone can reach conclusions that our present B.C. financial situation is good, bad or indifferent. I find it acceptable. You evidently do not. It is the nature of the beast.

[butcher99]

To Butcher99 ...

I would be amazed if, like every other political body, our provincial government did not attempt to paint itself in the best financial light possible. I would be equally amazed if those who do not support our present provincial government did not try to paint our present provincial government in the worst financial light possible, regardless of what the facts might be. It is the nature of the beast.

As long as seven out of ten similar provincial governments have decided that they can safely place their provinces in more demanding financial situations I will ASSUME that those handling the B.C. fiscal policies and making the financial decisions are acting reasonably.

In politics there always seem to be three truths. The governments truth. The oppositions truth. And the real truth as identified by a team of financial auditors with access to the facts. Using the exact same figures everyone can reach conclusions that our present B.C. financial situation is good, bad or indifferent. I find it acceptable. You evidently do not. It is the nature of the beast.

So you are ok with your government right out lying to you about the financial status of the province. It would appear so.
I am not sure what you mean by the 7 out of ten statement. Since the BC government has hidden most of the debt, well not hidden, just ignored is more like it, we actually have no idea just where the provincial debt stands. Do other provinces hide their debt as future obligations?

You do know what they say about assume don't you? It makes an *bleep* out of u and me. I am sure you have heard that.

When this govenment is finally turfed then we will find out the truth. I imagine that we will find out the same as they found out in Ontario when Mike Harris got booted. There will be a huge uncounted deficit lurking there.

[Donald G]

To butcher99 ...

Whether I am "all right" about being lied to is not at all in my control. Many people no longer take "selective truth" as lying. I am one of the old school in that respect.

All I can do is listen to the often opposing selective truths that are being told and attempt to place them in their proper perspective by seeking out as much of the whole story available as possible. I can not change "changing times" but I can be aware of what the changing times mean in terms of my own situation.

Politicians, defence lawyers in criminal court, real estate and most sales persons, BCTF/Govt negotiations, the Russia/UN situation,religious bodies, advertising, contracts and sub contracts etc etc etc are all parties to the same "spin" tactics nowadays.