Martin Mars Petition

[Gone_Fishin]

What's the risk to the crew of the Martin by flying an old, obsolete plane that is way less maneouverable than the skimmers? Do we put those lives in much more danger just for nostalgia's sake? Or for the sake of a few insured properties? Wise up, people. It's not worth risking people's lives to save your garden shed.

[Treblehook]

Depending on the location, the logistics of using the MM were pretty bizarre. For example, from what I understand, depending on where the fire was, the plane had to be flown back to Sprout Lake every night for servicing and mooring and then flown back to the work site the next morning. For the last few years, they were also using another unserviceable MM to harvest parts from. Parts were a huge issue in keeping the MM airworthy. Someone said that maneuverability was also an issue. Depending on the location of fires, the MM would not be able to safely access it at it's optimum effective [over the ground] altitude. This petition is [IMHO] another example of people going off half cocked when they know little or nothing about an issue/subject. From my knowledge, there hasn't been a peep of criticism from the experts within the fire service about the decision not to extend the contract with the MM people. You would think if the decision not to continue on with the MM was so stupid or ill-conceived, that someone who knows what they are talking about would have come forward long ago to offer an opinion. I for one would not sign any such petition.

[mexi cali]

Well then I guess I am one of the stupid ones because I did sign the petition armed with the knowledge that the MM is expensive to operate and is more restricted than the skimmers as far as locations it could be used.

I signed the petition because I believe that the MM is an effective tool when it can be used and has a place alongside the newer equipment.

Lots of talk about operating costs but what is the cost of multiple lost homes? Can you imagine the fire suppression capabilities if the dinosaur and the NKOTB were to work in harmony?

It has nothing to do with nostalgia or cost. In my obviously dim witted opinion, there is a need for the giant because it is effective albeit costly but in the case of an out of control wild fire, what has money got to do with it? You don't stop fighting a fire because the reserves have dried up or because it's gong to be expensive. You fight it till it's out and then you sit back and figure out where the money needs to come from.

The MM is capable of dropping much larger quantities of water than the skimmers so why not bring it out when it's needed?

I would think that we learned from the 03 fire that arguing over money ultimately costs more.

Even Christie said that we had blown our fire fighting budget for the year by the time the Smith Creek fire started but that didn't matter because the safety of the public was paramount.

Makes me wonder which actuary came up with a budget that was blown prior to fire season.

[Rwede]

Lots of talk about operating costs but what is the cost of multiple lost homes?

I think you need to rephrase that given the post above which asks what the cost of a flight crew's life is compared to the cost of a few insured homes.

Homes can be replaced, lives can't. Keep those old planes in a museum where they belong.

[mexi cali]

There are risks flying bombers no matter what the vintage. Saying that there is a heightened risk flying a MM is like saying there is a heightened risk driving a vintage car just because it's old.

They are probably more mechanically sound than many newer versions because they get more attention.

I am certainly not equating a human life with that of a structure, no matter what the structure is.

[Rwede]

Vintage cars are deadly dangerous compared to new cars. The analogy certainly disproves your case.

Maybe check this out.




1959 driver - dead
2009 driver - just fine

[wanderingman]

There are risks flying bombers no matter what the vintage. Saying that there is a heightened risk flying a MM is like saying there is a heightened risk driving a vintage car just because it's old.

They are probably more mechanically sound than many newer versions because they get more attention.

I am certainly not equating a human life with that of a structure, no matter what the structure is.

Iam most certain that I disagree with your comparrisons. Run a vintage car into a cement wall at 50MPH and see how things go verses a car with frame designed to accept impact(folds in all the right places at the right time) all the while equipped with air bags and shoulder safety belts etc

[wanderingman]

My5cents quote:I think the lies from the government were overkill. Accurate numbers and calculations of same has never been the Liberals strong suit, and neither has truth.

show me "ANY government that is ever any good at any of the above? When and where?

[mexi cali]

I may have been a bit vague. What I was getting gat is that their mechanical makeup is such that they are not likely to break down just because they are old.

You both have offered up worst case scenarios for the automobile example and I give that you are correct.

However, my guess is that if a water skimmer crashes or a MM crashes, death all around is likely. MM of course has 4 crew but the likelihood of them crashing just because of their age is simply not there.

[Glacier]

The fact remains, for a given amount of money and time you can drop far more water/retardant on a fire with the new bombers than you can with the MM. Therefore, more houses will be saved for the same amount of money.

[my5cents]

show me "ANY government that is ever any good at any of the above? When and where?

Actually if you go to their site they're looking for donations to keep up the good work of creating jobs, to continue to control spending and balance the budget once again.
http://www.bcliberals.com/

[BoB76]

Houses burning to the ground is the responsibility of the insurance companies not the government.
The short bus costs less to operate than a long bus....

Well then I guess I am one of the stupid ones because I did sign the petition armed with the knowledge that the MM is expensive to operate and is more restricted than the skimmers as far as locations it could be used.

I signed the petition because I believe that the MM is an effective tool when it can be used and has a place alongside the newer equipment.

Lots of talk about operating costs but what is the cost of multiple lost homes? Can you imagine the fire suppression capabilities if the dinosaur and the NKOTB were to work in harmony?

It has nothing to do with nostalgia or cost. In my obviously dim witted opinion, there is a need for the giant because it is effective albeit costly but in the case of an out of control wild fire, what has money got to do with it? You don't stop fighting a fire because the reserves have dried up or because it's gong to be expensive. You fight it till it's out and then you sit back and figure out where the money needs to come from.

The MM is capable of dropping much larger quantities of water than the skimmers so why not bring it out when it's needed?

I would think that we learned from the 03 fire that arguing over money ultimately costs more.

Even Christie said that we had blown our fire fighting budget for the year by the time the Smith Creek fire started but that didn't matter because the safety of the public was paramount.

Makes me wonder which actuary came up with a budget that was blown prior to fire season.

[mexi cali]

Houses not burning to the ground is the responsibility of Fire protection Services and the Forestry Department.

[Randall T]

There are actually two Martins left. The Hawaii II Mars which reportedly has been further upgraded for firefighting duty and is up for sale. The Philippine Mars has been painted US Navy blue and restored for a final flight to the Pensacola Naval Air Museum in Florida. It was supposed to be there already but is supposedly being held up with US bureaucracy regarding a trade for other parts or such.

[LoneWolf_53]

Houses not burning to the ground is the responsibility of Fire protection Services and the Forestry Department.

Yes, and one they take seriously and have successfully addressed the Smith Creek fire as a result.

The goofs I saw on the news whining are exactly that, goofs who haven't a clue, and simply figure that bigger is better, regardless of whether it's true or not. If they're that worried, they shouldn't have placed themselves in the woods, with only one way in and out in the first place.