Tailings Contaminate Lake

[maple leaf]

A registered letter sent Tuesday to the operators of the Mount Polley mine from the Environment Ministry warns the company that the tailings pond was still discharging effluent into a nearby creek.

The ministry issued a compliance order to the company to take prompt action to shut down all discharge and make sure there's enough capacity in the storage facility to handle a large rainfall event.

Guess that gives a clue as to what this company thinks about what they have let happen.In other words it looks like ,so what who cares.Why in the world would they need to be told to stop discharging into the creek if they are willingly taken responsibility for the problem they created.Their licences should be revoked immediately.

[Merry]

Why in the world would they need to be told to stop discharging into the creek if they are willingly taken responsibility for the problem they created.Their licences should be revoked immediately.

I suspect that part of the reason for the relative inaction since the spill is that nobody who currently works at Mt. Polley knows HOW to go about cleaning up such a massive spill, or WHAT actions should be taken in what order. Remember, this is such a large spill that it is uncharted territory. There is no-one who works at that mine (or at any mine in BC) who has ever had to deal with a spill of this magnitude before.

Add to that the fact that whoever is responsible for that dam at Mt. Polley clearly is either not qualified, or not competent enough, to make the kind of decisions they were making prior to the spill, because if they were the spill would have never happened in the first place. So, if they weren't qualified to make routine decisions that would have maintained the integrity of that dam, WHY are we allowing that same person or persons to oversee the aftermath? Because if they lacked the necessary knowledge to prevent such an event from happening, what makes us think they have the necessary knowledge to deal with the outcome?

Ditto for the Ministry employees. Do they really have the knowledge and expertise to oversee such an environmental catastrophe? Maybe they've been letting the company deal with the problem without much Ministry input because they didn't really know enough themselves to advise the company on the best course of action. And it is only now, after 5 weeks have passed with little having been done and winter on the way, that they've finally decided to CYA and send the Company that letter telling them they need to at least fix the breach before the rains start.

If I'm right, it's time the Government hired an engineering firm to come in and take charge of this problem. The bill can be sent to Imperial Metals, and if they don't pay the Government should seize some of their assets until they do. If current laws don't allow for that kind of action following an environmental accident of this nature, then it's time for the Government to change the laws.

[maple leaf]

The ministry issued a compliance order to the company to take prompt action to shut down all discharge and make sure there's enough capacity in the storage facility to handle a large rainfall event.

Merry, the government issued a compliance order to the company to take prompt action.The whole clean up of this disaster is not what they are talking about here.They are talking about this company taking action to stop the discharge immediately.The government either thinks the company has the wherewithal to do something about it or else they are just all talk and are not doing anything about it.The logical first step for this company to take would be to STOP discharging their poison into the creek.They can hire and do what ever is necessary to do so . If they, the company were taking responsibility for their disaster ,which they caused ,they would not have to be told to take this action.

[Merry]

Here is an excerpt from the letter sent to Mount Polley on Sept 9th via Registered Mail. It was addressed to Dale Reimer (the Mine General Manager) and was signed by the Acting Director Mining Operations in the Environmental Protection Branch.

the Ministry of Environment is concerned that more action could be taken to provide a greater degree of environmental protection in a more timely manner.

On Sept 4 2014, 31 days after the tailings storage facility breach, your facility was inspected by staff from the Ministry of Environment, Environmental Protection Division. At the time of inspection, it was noted that MPMC was discharging effluent from the tailings storage facility into Hazeltine Creek. As a result of this, MPMC is out of compliance with Section 1 of Order 107461under the Environmental Management Act, for having failed to abate the discharge of mine-affected materials and sediments from the tailings storage facility.

Please take prompt action to abate all discharges from the tailings storage facility into the receiving environment by undertaking activities such as installing passive and/or active sediment control systems (like silt curtains, sediment traps, diverting flows away from mine-affected materials and hydro seeding) and ensuring abatement capacity is designed and built to handle a 1 in 10 year rainfall event.

This Advisory is a first step of an escalating enforcement response to a violation of the Environmental Management Act. This Advisory, the alleged violations and the circumstances to which it refers will form part of the compliance history for Mount Polley Mining Corporation and its responsible officials and will be taken into account in the event of future non-compliance.

[Merry]

Merry, the government issued a compliance order to the company to take prompt action.The whole clean up of this disaster is not what they are talking about here.They are talking about this company taking action to stop the discharge immediately.

I realize the letter is about stopping the discharge from the tailings facility into the Creek. My post was a response to your previous post in which you wondered why it had become necessary for the Ministry to write a letter telling the Company to do something that one would have expected them to already be doing. And my position was that maybe the people currently responsible for the cleanup are a little overwhelmed because they are out of their depth when it comes to dealing with a dam breach and subsequent cleanup of this magnitude.

It is my understanding that the General Manager at Mount Polley may not be an Engineer (as most others in his position are), that his background is administrative not technical, so I have to wonder how qualified he is to make the kind of decisions that people at that level often have to make? If it can be shown he always deferred to professional advice when it came to decisions that affected that dam then the possible lack of an engineering degree is not an issue. But if it can be shown that he sometimes overruled the opinions of those qualified to advise him about the capacity of the tailings storage facility, then that's a whole different story. I wonder if the Ministry responsible for Mines has even looked into this aspect of the story?

[Merry]

Here is an excerpt from Mt. Polley's latest update:

If you are a resident who draws water from Quesnel Lake or Quesnel River, and are located downstream of Caribou Island and upstream of the UNBC Quesnel River Research Centre, the Mount Polley Mine will install a water filter, free of charge, at your residence. Complete the form and a representative from the Company will contact you to coordinate the assessment and installation.

http://www.imperialmetals.com/s/Mt_Poll ... tID=671044

Apparently they've scheduled a meeting for tonight with the local residents.

[maryjane48]

imperial metals = fail christy = fail

[Smurf]

Merry wrote:

I realize the letter is about stopping the discharge from the tailings facility into the Creek. My post was a response to your previous post in which you wondered why it had become necessary for the Ministry to write a letter telling the Company to do something that one would have expected them to already be doing. And my position was that maybe the people currently responsible for the cleanup are a little overwhelmed because they are out of their depth when it comes to dealing with a dam breach and subsequent cleanup of this magnitude.

It is my understanding that the General Manager at Mount Polley may not be an Engineer (as most others in his position are), that his background is administrative not technical, so I have to wonder how qualified he is to make the kind of decisions that people at that level often have to make? If it can be shown he always deferred to professional advice when it came to decisions that affected that dam then the possible lack of an engineering degree is not an issue. But if it can be shown that he sometimes overruled the opinions of those qualified to advise him about the capacity of the tailings storage facility, then that's a whole different story. I wonder if the Ministry responsible for Mines has even looked into this aspect of the story?

If you are right it is quite possible he is a bean counter and does not care about anything else. I have seen this before and it can be a total disaster. This might all be a stall tactic as I'm starting to doubt any thing will be done before winter.

[Merry]

I think you're right Smurf. The company seems to be moving much slower than one would expect, and the Government (up until sending that letter on Sep 9th) has been letting them get away with it.

My fear is that there is some truth to the notion that if most of the cleanup is left until after winter, then nature will render whatever cleanup is left to be a much less expensive proposition. This would benefit the company financially, but it could also benefit the Government if they know the company hasn't got the resources to do it all right now. After all, if the Company can't pay, then the Government would have to.

And if the Government did end up having to do it, that wouldn't just be a financial problem for them, it would be a political one too. So far better to keep the whole issue off the Public Radar as much as possible by keeping a low profile (heard any major announcements from either mine officials or politicians lately?) and just letting everything drift until the winter snows come. And, unfortunately, thanks to the distraction caused by the Teacher's strike, both the Company and the Government seem to be getting away with it.

Frankly, not only do I doubt Imperial Metals financial ability to pay for the cleanup right now, I also doubt they have enough equipment and manpower on site to deal with a spill of this magnitude. Maybe the Feds should have called in the Army and then sent the bill to Imperial, because that's possibly the kind of manpower and equipment that's really needed. But of course, for the same reasons cited above (money and political fall out) we all know that's not going to happen either.

The bottom line is that the kind of cleanup most would have liked to see is probably never going to happen. Although hopefully, those who caused such a spill to be allowed to happen in the first place WILL be called to account. But it will only happen if the Public insists on it, and I haven't heard a lot of that kind of insistence so far. Everybody's too absorbed in what's happening with the BCTF.

[Omnitheo]

The government response to this spill is just foreshadowing of the response for when there's a tanker spill outside Kitimat

[Mini-moi]

Hmmm - 'Merry' - Odd that you seem to know so much about who sent a letter, what that letter said, to whom the letter was sent, on what day, by what postal service, especially given the time line involved - Sept 9th, and today is the 11th?? Employee of the Ministry perhaps? Just curious.

The General Manager used to be Purchasing Manager, in charge of the warehouse, and I believe has always worked in mining, so he probably has a fair knowledge of how everything is supposed to work, even tho he is not an 'Engineer'.

[Merry]

Hmmm - 'Merry' - Odd that you seem to know so much about who sent a letter, what that letter said, to whom the letter was sent, on what day, by what postal service, especially given the time line involved - Sept 9th, and today is the 11th?? Employee of the Ministry perhaps? Just curious.

The General Manager used to be Purchasing Manager, in charge of the warehouse, and I believe has always worked in mining, so he probably has a fair knowledge of how everything is supposed to work, even tho he is not an 'Engineer'.

Most of my information has come from the Internet with a little bit of additional info coming from folks I know who live and work in the Likely area.

As for the General Manager's experience when it comes to knowing how to properly operate and maintain that tailings pond, being in charge of the warehouse does NOT provide the appropriate background. Most General Managers in mines are Mining Engineers, who also have extensive experience in the actual Mining side of the operation as opposed to just the administrative side. And while Mining Engineers are not the ones who design tailings dams, they are in a better position to "talk shop" with the engineers who do, and to understand the ramifications of certain decisions.

Hopefully the General Manager at Mt. Polley has more experience than just purchasing, because if not then I have to question whether or not he was the best person to be making decisions about that dam, and about increasing the capacity of that tailings pond. Maybe he wasn't the one making those decisions, but if not then I would be interested in the qualifications and experience of the person who was. Such information ought to be made Public, because the Public has a right to know whether or not decisions that have the potential to impact us all are being made by folks who are qualified to make them.

Simply having years of experience working in a mine is not sufficient in and of itself to consider somebody qualified to do a certain job. The previous experience has to be the RIGHT kind of experience, in the right area. After all, we wouldn't expect the HR Superintendent to oversee underground blasting would we? Ditto for the Warehouse Superintendent.

The bottom line is that someone made some bad decisions in relation to that tailings pond, which resulted in a dam breach causing the largest tailings pond spill in BC History. In most mines, the "buck" stops with the General Manager, but personally I don't care WHO it stops with so long as the person or persons responsible are ultimately held to account. The Government ought to be finding out who that person, or persons are, and asking some serious questions about decisions they made and whether or not they were qualified to make those decisions.

[Smurf]

I have known many purchasing agents, store keepers whatever and I wouldn't want any of them working on the floor in a position of any responsibility. No matter how long he was there he would not know anything about the dam construction. Having said that, if he is a good manager and can pick the proper knowledgeable people to work under him, he could be a good manager. However no matter who he picks. he is ultimately responsible. That's why he's paid the big bucks.

When I was a tradesman and something came into question the apprentices under me were never even talked to and I would have been laughed out of the room if I tried to blame something on them even if they should have known. I was responsible. period.

[Mini-moi]

All I can say is 'Wow - how nice to be so knowledgable about so much'.

[steven lloyd]

The bottom line is that the kind of cleanup most would have liked to see is probably never going to happen. Although hopefully, those who caused such a spill to be allowed to happen in the first place WILL be called to account. But it will only happen if the Public insists on it, and I haven't heard a lot of that kind of insistence so far. Everybody's too absorbed in what's happening with the BCTF.

The Liberals got to be loving this. All this publicity with the BCTF strike and support growing for the government every day on it. Meanwhile, way up there in rural country somewhere north of Kamloops "wasn't there a creek overflow or something?"