FORTISBC rates up hugely

[wanderingman]

You said the fire dept was there in 20 minutes. Good cuz they know what to do. Keep everyone back at least 100ft an look for and shut down any possible ignition sources in the immediate area. Natural Gas (as opposed to propane which is heavier than air) is very safe in an open atmosphere such as you described. It is lighter than air so rises straight up and dissipates to non combustible air/fuel ratio in a matter of seconds.
A water line break running for 3 hours has the potential to cause far more damage. Washed out yards and roads, flooded basements etc. Ask any insurance underwriter what they consider to be a more dangerous peril, a natural gas line or a water line?

I doubt any person with a 1/2 a brain can say a Nat gas line blown wide open for3 hours is actually safer than a leaking water lines?Now agreed water line insurance wise most likely will cause more money damage for sure if its in a house or undermining a foundation but that's not what were talking about here so lets try to stay on subject.Blaming fortis may not have been my best choice of words as i understand the market fluxuations on commoditys I was actually just thinking most people never look at the price of power or gas until its the middle of winter and then their all peeved off at a huge bill.I was really just waking people up to the fact its up 58% in less than a year.Dont know how you got on about water mains and insurance companys and the lot? Maybe go start your own thread on that perhaps
It also was my PERSONAL opinion that the fortis response time to the blown gas line was unacceptable to me and my thinking.Others like you may vary and that's fine

[wanderingman]

Wanderingman ..

First you complained about rates being too high than you laughed after your neighbour dug a hole in the gas line and it took 3 hours to fix. Did your neighbour phone " BC One call - phone before you dig " before he used his backhoe ?
Who do you think is paying for his mistake ? Fortis customers .. you.

I never really laughed at the neighbour I was laughing at the rediculous (very slow) response time Fortis showed
Not sure about if fortis will bill them for their misdeed.I know there expecting to be billed though
obviously they never called (and surely should have)

[wanderingman]

[quote="Bsuds"][quote="wanderingman"]I seriously doubt fortis sell,s gas at cost

Looks like you could be wrong.

http://www.fortisbc.com/NaturalGas/Home ... f-gas.aspx


I do stand corrected

[twobits]

And the person responsible for the damaged line repair will pay.....and huge. A long weekend call out will be at triple time. If it had happened on a regular workday, mon-fri, minimum bill is 1800.
And for those of you that think making that call to BC One Call absolves you of liability or responsibility for damage....it does not at all. The information they provide with the locate of lines comes with a very clear disclaimer that the information is the best available and you should hand dig one meter either side of the location provided. The only way you will get away with it is if you can prove the locate to be so inaccurate it was beyond your control.
I always requested a physical locate and paint markings when I knew we would be digging near gas lines. They would rather send you a faxed diagram but if you are persistent, a real person will come out and do a locate and mark.

[wanderingman]

And the person responsible for the damaged line repair will pay.....and huge. A long weekend call out will be at triple time. If it had happened on a regular workday, mon-fri, minimum bill is 1800.
And for those of you that think making that call to BC One Call absolves you of liability or responsibility for damage....it does not at all. The information they provide with the locate of lines comes with a very clear disclaimer that the information is the best available and you should hand dig one meter either side of the location provided. The only way you will get away with it is if you can prove the locate to be so inaccurate it was beyond your control.
I always requested a physical locate and paint markings when I knew we would be digging near gas lines. They would rather send you a faxed diagram but if you are persistent, a real person will come out and do a locate and mark.

How would they send a faxed diagram>? they don't have a blueprint of the installed lines? The guy has to come out and electronically locate the line which even then there was a fair amount of fooling around before they were able to actually locate it.I said to the guy why all this *bleep* around ?surely you have blueprints showing line locations and he said they do not

[Rwede]

Blueprints of lines are just about always wrong, and tend to approximate locations rather than be specific. A physical locate is the only way to dig safely.

[twobits]

How would they send a faxed diagram>? they don't have a blueprint of the installed lines? The guy has to come out and electronically locate the line which even then there was a fair amount of fooling around before they were able to actually locate it.I said to the guy why all this *bleep* around ?surely you have blueprints showing line locations and he said they do not

If the guy told you there were no prints or drawings, he probably did so just to get you to go away and let him do his job. Every piece of mains pipe that goes into the ground originates with a planned drawing. When the pipe actually goes into the ground, the job foreman, using the plans provided, marks the plan where there were deviations. The drawing now becomes what is called the `As Built Drawing` and that is what is filed for future reference.
Service line connections from the main to a building or residence do not have pre designed plans drawn. A service line work order is initiated when a customer requests service. The crews then go out to the site, with the information of where the mains are located in this area from the As Built Drawings. The crews then determine on site as to the best route to place the service line to the building. They may have to avoid a garage, septic tank, or swimming pool for example. When the service line is installed, the crew leader then fills in all the details on the Service Line Work Order. It will include a drawing of the pipe installed from the main to the meter and includes information on total length, depth, and landmark measurements such as how many feet away from North Property line, how many feet away from garage etc. This SLWO is then filed for future reference.
When you call BC ONE CALL, it is these drawing they will fax or email to you with the disclaimer that you must hand dig at least one meter either side of the shown location to locate the pipe. They resist sending personnel out to do physical locates because it is expensive. Seasoned contractors know when the drawings they receive do not accurately reflect what they are currently looking at. Things change over time. Cities widen roads so offsets to property line measurements could be wrong. The garage or large tree noted on the diagram may long ago been removed. If you can make a case such as this, they will sent out a human being with an electronic locating device. They are not infallible either so they still insist on hand dig locates of the pipe.
The above information comes from 6 years as a summer student installing these pipes for the gas company while in university and subsequently as the owner of an underground utilities construction company that has called for more locates than I can possibly remember.

[wanderingman]

twobits?? if it was so so simple then why the last TWO times the fortis people have been to my house and now the one next door do not know where the main line is nor the service lines and neither time had any such drawings for support
Mine was the city water line broke and had to be dug up/Fortis came and it took the guy about 30-40 minutes to locate the line
even though I showed him exactly where it was located.I at that time asked about blueprints and he indicated they have none available.Second time around(the other day) same situation and same amount of time to locate and no drawings used

Love your line here quote:If the guy told you there were no prints or drawings, he probably did so just to get you to go away and let him do his job.Are you always this arrogant and condescending even though you don't have a clue as to this situation???

[twobits]

twobits?? if it was so so simple then why the last TWO times the fortis people have been to my house and now the one next door do not know where the main line is nor the service lines and neither time had any such drawings for support
Mine was the city water line broke and had to be dug up/Fortis came and it took the guy about 30-40 minutes to locate the line
even though I showed him exactly where it was located.I at that time asked about blueprints and he indicated they have none available.Second time around(the other day) same situation and same amount of time to locate and no drawings used

Love your line here quote:If the guy told you there were no prints or drawings, he probably did so just to get you to go away and let him do his job.Are you always this arrogant and condescending even though you don't have a clue as to this situation???

Give it up dude. You are complaining about nothing. He brought no drawings because he didn't need them. He was called on his radio or cell while out in the field working and told of the need for a physical locate. He would have been informed during the call what the address was, who called, main location in the street and size, and the addresses of buildings with service in the area. When he arrived he would have a conversation with the contractor/homeowner then hook up his transmitter to a gas service in the area. Tune the locator and start tracing lines. He would probably retrace two or three times as an abundance of caution. What is the big deal about 30 minutes? Did it screw up your pedicure appointment?

[Donald G]

Most companies or private individuals who do any digging in relation to construction carry insurance that covers them in the event that they damage a utility line, whether it be water, gas or other.

I am told that the problem is not usually the horizontal position of the line but the vertical depth of the line because the surface level at a construction site can change several times within hours. Makes sense to me.

[twobits]

Most companies or private individuals who do any digging in relation to construction carry insurance that covers them in the event that they damage a utility line, whether it be water, gas or other.

I am told that the problem is not usually the horizontal position of the line but the vertical depth of the line because the surface level at a construction site can change several times within hours. Makes sense to me.

You would be surprised at how many homeowners hire contactors that have no insurance or even WCB coverage. In my experience I would estimate 1/3 of excavating contractors do not carry liability insurance. And it will invariably be the smaller outfits that homeowners would be hiring.

As to depth, the locating equipment can also give that information within about 6 inches. But there is still always the requirement to hand dig one meter each side.

[wanderingman]

Give it up dude. You are complaining about nothing. He brought no drawings because he didn't need them. He was called on his radio or cell while out in the field working and told of the need for a physical locate. He would have been informed during the call what the address was, who called, main location in the street and size, and the addresses of buildings with service in the area. When he arrived he would have a conversation with the contractor/homeowner then hook up his transmitter to a gas service in the area. Tune the locator and start tracing lines. He would probably retrace two or three times as an abundance of caution. What is the big deal about 30 minutes? Did it screw up your pedicure appointment?

You should give it up as you were not there and apparently do not have a clue as to what happened or happens in these situationss. All you do is yap about I know this and I know that well shut up already and it Had nothing to do with me.It was the neighbour.The point was(you cant seem to grasp it) was the field worker had not a clue where the lines were and said there was no drawings for him to use as a basic start point.He could not find the main line either and had no clue where to look. He traced the broken line but could not locate the main line even though I told him where it was .He then finally went into my yard and traced my line towards the road and then finally went across the road and located the main line.