Student Loans

[Sige]

The debtor owes the government (us, in case you've not made the link) the government, that sells insurance thru ICBC, and collects licence fees, will refuse to sell the debtor any more product, until they make repayment arrangements. What illegal measure is that ? Do you think a bank would loan you more money if you've not made any repayment arrangements ?

The key words here are "...make repayment arrangements." They just want the arrangements made for repayment, not the entire debt paid back right away.

[just popping in]

There's no co-signer for student loans.

A co-signer is required if the student is under 19.

[twobits]

A bank would use legal measures to collect their debt, not make up new rules as they go along to collect.

I agree it would likely only be seriously overdue accounts losing their license/insurance. But what is next, if you owe on your medical premiums, property taxes, library books, gst, etc etc etc. then you will no longer be able to drive? Why don't they take away your medical as well, and your library card, maybe the land your house is on, do you get the point? When does it end?

When does it end? The accurate and very simple response is to be responsible for the loan you asked for. No one should be able to cry "poor" when they borrowed money to pursue a course study that had little to no opportunity for employment. To do so means you feel you are entitled to pursue whatever your flavour of interest might be and if in the end it does not result in employment to pay off the loan YOU applied for, then you have an entitled set of stones that expects the taxpayer to cover your delusional folly in education outcome. The guarantor of your delusion expectation of employment, or self improvement project, will be the taxpayer!

I would be very interested in seeing, and wish the Gov't would provide the basic stats, of a breakdown of the 55k in default loans and what the course of study was. I would be willing to bet that 90% of those 55k defaults are in liberal Arts programs.
Which then begs the question....."Should the granting of student loans, guaranteed by default by the taxpayer, be universal and without consideration for future employment, or should those resources be directed to fields of study where there is least some kind of probability of employment and repayment?"

So, to go back to your first statement...."A bank would use legal measures to collect their debt, not make up new rules as they go along to collect"......The first reality is the bank would use every legal measure available to them to collect on that debt, just as the gov't is doing so now since they are all within provincial jurisdiction. The second reality is that the Bank would not lend to someone that does not have a viable an acceptable plan for repayment. I would dare anyone to go to any Bank and ask them to fund a University Degree in Arts....and all of it's social sciences, without a guarantor.

And that is precisely what is wrong with our student loan program, there is no risk assessment that goes along with that loan. So the banks happily supply the loans cuz joe taxpayer is the guarantor. Sweet deal for the banks. Chitty deal for the taxpayer.

[maryjane48]

your ideas great as long as you live in china

[JLives]

I would be very interested in seeing, and wish the Gov't would provide the basic stats, of a breakdown of the 55k in default loans and what the course of study was. I would be willing to bet that 90% of those 55k defaults are in liberal Arts programs.
Which then begs the question....."Should the granting of student loans, guaranteed by default by the taxpayer, be universal and without consideration for future employment, or should those resources be directed to fields of study where there is least some kind of probability of employment and repayment?"

That's a mighty big assumption. Do you have anything to back that up?

It is up to the student which field of study they would like to take. Arts degree doesn't means taking out a loan to learn how to paint pretty flowers better. There are many practical, necessary fields and careers it can be applied to. http://www.okanagan.bc.ca/programs/area ... /arts.html

[twobits]

your ideas great as long as you live in china

I don't live in China and don't have to pay for their students in Fine Arts. Pretty sure that China cranks out more Engineers, Computer Programmers and field specific technicians than Sociology and psychology degrees. So what exactly is your socialist point here?

[Captain Awesome]

May be perhaps they should only give out student loans to people who will be enrolling into programs which are most likely to actually provide a good income and thus a chance to recoup the loans. Computer science, accounting, engineering degrees would be safe bets while there are some questionable ones.

[twobits]

That's a mighty big assumption. Do you have anything to back that up?

It is up to the student which field of study they would like to take. Arts degree doesn't means taking out a loan to learn how to paint pretty flowers better. There are many practical, necessary fields and careers it can be applied to. http://www.okanagan.bc.ca/programs/area ... /arts.html

I am wishing the gov't actually supplied the numbers. The probable reason of why we are not privy to those details is because the simple release of those stats would immediately be portrayed as an attack on the Liberal Arts and it is not worth the bad press that would ensue from the 100k/yr tenured Profs whose sole existence and fat cheques rely on the stable of brainwashed general Arts students that they can convince are being down trodden on by society.

And you are correct. It is up to the student which field of study they want to pursue. As long as that freedom to choose does not automatically come along with a taxpayer guarantor. And I am well aware of the fields of study in a General Arts Degree are. It is a very broad degree that includes everything from "painting flowers" to "Philosophy" to "Economics". Some of those fields, and many in between could justify support of studies. Many choose this route toward a Masters Degree. Law comes to mind. All I am saying is that perhaps there should be a little more vetting of the end game of each student before the taxpayer guarantee's a bloody loan.

[Ken7]

Why is ICBC getting involved? ICBC is an insurance company. That's all they should be doing. Somehow ICBC seems to be getting into all kinds of things. Guess the $700 million transfer from ICBC to General is not enough.
I am not saying students should not be paying of their loans. They should. But put a big stick ICBC behind this is out of line.
So wish ICBC was going back for what its original intend was. Affordable vehicle insurance. Guess those days are long gone.

They likely see a way of generating more money and they feel this might be easy cash. They then get free labor from the police to enforce their rules.

I truly like the Income Tax suggestion, most reasonable.

[jimmy4321]

What's the issue? The government wants to get paid - pay up!
As much as I'd love to rub peoples noses into the fact that that's the perks of ICBC (government insurance). This is about license renewal which regardless of province, it's government.
As mentioned earlier other provinces refuse license renewals for deadbeat fathers.

[my5cents]

They likely see a way of generating more money and they feel this might be easy cash. They then get free labor from the police to enforce their rules.

I truly like the Income Tax suggestion, most reasonable.

Well, if you call "easy cash", collecting money that is owed.

If ICBC collects these debts like they do all other provincial debts they already collect, they don't make a cent. Unlike if the Province paid a collection agency.

So,,, those who say "ICBC should just sell insurance" (and not collect debts), I guess cities who are forced to supply services to residents, such as cleaning up a property after non-compliance, shouldn't tack the costs onto taxes, because they are a city?

As for "free labor" from the police ? How do you figure that ? If ICBC refuses to sell a person in default on their student loan, their car insurance or renew their license, this involes the police, how ?

Even if it did involve assistance from the police, which it doesn't, I think the Province pays enough towards policing that the police could lend a hand.

If ICBC was to cancel insurance and driver's licenses for these debts, which they are not, they would use the Sheriff Service.

The only time the police take licenses are for prohibitions and suspensions, ordered by the OSMV.

[Catri]

It should be noted that student loans are not only available for university degrees. Vocational programs students are also eligible. Regardless of what a person chooses to study there is no guarantee of employment in their chosen field, nor is it guaranteed that that student, having decided at the ripe old age of 18 what they wanted to do for the rest of their lives is going to stay employed in their chosen field long enough to repay their loans. I'm not saying that's a good reason to default, it's not, what I'm saying is it's misguided to suggest that we should only give student loans to those who choose fields we arbitrarily decide will get them a job. Many liberal Arts students diligently repay their loans, just like many hairdressers repay theirs and some engineers don't. It should also be noted that not all student loans that are in default are not being repaid. In my own case, I had a hard time making the full payment on my student loan for a while, so I made payment arrangements with the government and while technically my loan was in default I still payed it off in full, just over a longer period of time than originally agreed to.

[gman313]

This pisses me off and they should be collected on. I agree with the idea of adding it onto income tax.

I took out student loans for my degree and I am happy to say all the payments have been on time and I only have 14 monthly payments left!! Wahoo, light at the end of the tunnel.

[my5cents]

This pisses me off and they should be collected on. I agree with the idea of adding it onto income tax.

I took out student loans for my degree and I am happy to say all the payments have been on time and I only have 14 monthly payments left!! Wahoo, light at the end of the tunnel.

So you feel the Federal Government, that collects the taxes should be involved ? All the complaints that ICBC, a provincial crown corporations shouldn't collect the debts because "it has nothing to do with ICBC", but the federal government does ?

[maryjane48]

I am wishing the gov't actually supplied the numbers. The probable reason of why we are not privy to those details is because the simple release of those stats would immediately be portrayed as an attack on the Liberal Arts and it is not worth the bad press that would ensue from the 100k/yr tenured Profs whose sole existence and fat cheques rely on the stable of brainwashed general Arts students that they can convince are being down trodden on by society.

And you are correct. It is up to the student which field of study they want to pursue. As long as that freedom to choose does not automatically come along with a taxpayer guarantor. And I am well aware of the fields of study in a General Arts Degree are. It is a very broad degree that includes everything from "painting flowers" to "Philosophy" to "Economics". Some of those fields, and many in between could justify support of studies. Many choose this route toward a Masters Degree. Law comes to mind. All I am saying is that perhaps there should be a little more vetting of the end game of each student before the taxpayer guarantee's a bloody loan.

thats mighty totalitarian of you :)