Poor can keep more cash

[omisimaw]

http://www.castanet.net/edition/news-story-134800-3-.htm#134800

What a joke! Huge jump (sic) but they fail to mention it is taxed money, so if you earn $600 a month you sure don't see that much in your pocket!

Also seems like you have to have kids to qualify so this is lop sided!

If someone is on social assistance do you think this works? and do you think this program should be for EVERY person on assistance and not just those with kids or a disabled person?????

[Auto1]

I was hoping you could explain it, Omi.

I am not on assistance, so need the point of view of someone who is.

Will you be able to truly keep more? If so that would be great!

[omisimaw]

I was hoping you could explain it, Omi.

I am not on assistance, so need the point of view of someone who is.

Will you be able to truly keep more? If so that would be great!

If you can take the time read the article, you do not need me to explain it to you, it is in the article.

and it does not need to be a person on assistance to have a point of view. this is tax payer money and resources and systems here, so more than those few who are in receipt make the decisions.

they have always been able to keep more, it has just been raised, and on every program out there be it EI WCB SA whatever, there has and always have been ways to "earn" more.

My opinion? It is not enough and is too limited to do any true good!

[oneh2obabe]

For people who receive social assistance or a disability pension, the income declared on the monthly reporting stub is the net amount received.

[omisimaw]

But they still end up paying tax on the gross amount and at this time of the year their are lots of folks who, being on assistance of any type, are finding out that they owe the taxman ...
Never, ever is there enough taken at source to cover the amount earned!
If you have ever been on EI you learn that real quick! SA and WCB may be tax exempt but you can bet the extra is not and just did a quick check on the employer calculator for paying $300 bi weekly and uh huh NO TAX deducted... so at the end of the year, yahoo you have to pony up to the bar!

[Auto1]

It is really easy to get an employer to take off more taxes. In fact, you usually have to fill out a tax form when you get hired - or you can request one.

Easy. Designed to help people who are unable to budget to pay the taxes in one lump sum.

*Edited to add: If you pay more tax than you owe, you get it back. I used to work two jobs (both were full time). So I made sure I was paying what I needed to every month.

[oneh2obabe]

Social assistance and disability pensions are not taxable but you must include them in your net income to ensure any benefits you may be entitled to are calculated properly. These benefits include the OAS Supplement, the Canada Child Tax Benefit, the GST/HST credit as well as certain provincial or territorial tax credits and certain non-refundable tax credits.

You can request EI, CPP, and OAS deduct income tax from your cheque. In the case of pension(s), you can have it taken off one or both - it's up to you. You can also request additional federal tax be deducted from your income. Complete the section for additional tax deduction on the TD1 and hand it into payroll.

[omisimaw]

Social assistance and disability pensions are not taxable but you must include them in your net income to ensure any benefits you may be entitled to are calculated properly. These benefits include the OAS Supplement, the Canada Child Tax Benefit, the GST/HST credit as well as certain provincial or territorial tax credits and certain non-refundable tax credits.

You can request EI, CPP, and OAS deduct income tax from your cheque. In the case of pension(s), you can have it taken off one or both - it's up to you. You can also request additional federal tax be deducted from your income. Complete the section for additional tax deduction on the TD1 and hand it into payroll.

Whatever!

The point is that if you add on $600 a month gross to your taxable income, at the end of the year you will end up paying. People do not realize but the tax taken at source by EI CPP et al is never enough and depending on the amount you earn there may or may not even be any tax taken at source! PLUS as you point out it will also drastically alter those hidden little tax benefit calculations that most if not all low income folks do not even think about!

Yes you can request the whole check go to tax if you so choose, but that defeats the purpose.However you can hope for a return at the end of the year!

This program is not going to get folks off the dole... and it does nothing to really even give them much of a foot up....

But the bigger situation here is only a small select group of SA are being given the opportunity to even do this and that is simply wrong!

Better options available

[fluffy]

But the bigger situation here is only a small select group of SA are being given the opportunity to even do this and that is simply wrong!

Perhaps they are simply targeting those in greatest need to ward off possible criticism. Wouldn't people with at-home dependents would find it harder to work because of daycare costs cancelling out potential earnings ?

[oneh2obabe]

Whatever!

The point is that if you add on $600 a month gross to your taxable income, at the end of the year you will end up paying. People do not realize but the tax taken at source by EI CPP et al is never enough and depending on the amount you earn there may or may not even be any tax taken at source! PLUS as you point out it will also drastically alter those hidden little tax benefit calculations that most if not all low income folks do not even think about!

What is so hard to understand that the income to be reported is the NET amount received. You know, the money they get after TAXES are paid. As for those pesky hidden benefits, the income reported will increase the GST/HST rebate they receive.

[omisimaw]

What is so hard to understand that it is no what they are reporting net or gross that is in question.

It simply does not matter what they are reporting, the fact of the matter is they will end up with a tax bill at the end of the year and you can bet none of them will know or save for that event, thus putting a debt load on them that is unnecessary. Tax is not always required to be taken at source depending on the amount earned however the gross amount earned is required to be reported on a persons taxes. How many do you think would simply forget to include these little itty bitty earnings?

If the government feels these folks can do with more money, then give it to them. Better to have a parent/guardian home with the kids or for the kids, and to have the family caregiver taking care of the disabled family member then to "let" them have the privilege of earning $600 over their allotted SA only to turn around and spend way over that to hire someone else to care for their charges! PLUS end up with a tax bill.....

The theory they are using here is that if they let peeps get used to a smidge more a month they will "eventually" crawl off the dole.

Unbelievable stupidity at best but if it is there opinion that it is doable then it would be doable for ALL social assistance recipients and should not only be available to a select group.

[the truth]

wow they call this helping the poor-NOT-

[omisimaw]

wow they call this helping the poor-NOT-

MY point exactly!

would rather see them find the folks full time work, at full time livable wages and offer the employer a subsidy to hire and train them into something that is sustainable!

Oh right that novel idea is available, overused by greedy employers and hardly ever ends up to the benefit of the recipient!
Used to work, back in the day when they actually monitored the program. Alas it has been downgraded to an administrative paper jungle juggle that is filtered through sub contract by sub contract to the government agency.... the government no longer actually manages or runs the programs and have little if anything to do with the development of the programs either.

[oneh2obabe]

What is so hard to understand that it is no what they are reporting net or gross that is in question.

It simply does not matter what they are reporting, the fact of the matter is they will end up with a tax bill at the end of the year and you can bet none of them will know or save for that event, thus putting a debt load on them that is unnecessary. Tax is not always required to be taken at source depending on the amount earned however the gross amount earned is required to be reported on a persons taxes. How many do you think would simply forget to include these little itty bitty earnings?

Actually, someone who receives, as an example $10,848 in social assistance, and earns the maximum $500 per month won't pay any tax. What they will get is a $38.04 refund for provincial or territorial credits.

Granted, the monthly amount they can earn won't allow them to live a life of luxury, but will hopefully be used to provide fresh fruit and veggies.

[omisimaw]

Actually their tax situation is not as cut and dry as you like to make it out to be. Plus the meat of this issue is not that they will, for sure, end up paying tax.... even if they are fortunate to get on a program with WorkBC and get a $300/wk stipend that has minimal tax taken from it, you end up paying!

Granted you are just doing a basic calculation based on, well ????, so sure you can make it look that way if you wish.

Ask any person who has spent their full time on EI, not found full time work when or before it runs out during the tax year and had to work part time or even a stint or two of assistance, or goes on a stipend program. The tax on these programs is never, ever, never has been taken off at the full amount it should be and in the end you have to pony up the amount required to make up the difference.

This subject depends on a whole lot more plus $500 a month extra would not even begin to cover a daycare scenario and would more than likely be spent on what most consider luxury, like smokes, a case of beer, maybe a pizza or two, or possibly used to buy a few hot dogs for a birthday party, not fresh veg.

The whole situation of earning and clawing back of those already living under the poverty line puts these folks further behind, not ahead.