$15 min wage

[fluffy]

It's probably worth mentioning that the rules are different for dividends paid by Canadian corporations than by foreign owned corporations paying dividends to Canadian shareholders. Canadian corporate dividends are taxed favorably to encourage investment in Canadian companies , which leads to a more robust business sector and higher employment. This in turn leads to more opportunity to move "up the ladder" into better paying jobs, again lending credence to the thought that a minimum wage job is a learning/growing environment, a job easily left behind for greener pastures creating another entry level opening for the next one entering the work force.

It's an efficient system when all the different parts are in place, but is easily pushed out of sync when the scales tip too heavily one way or the other, like a shortage of "moving up" positions or a lack of people qualified to fill them, or economic hard times like we are facing now.

[JLives]

This in turn leads to more opportunity to move "up the ladder" into better paying jobs, again lending credence to the thought that a minimum wage job is a learning/growing environment, a job easily left behind for greener pastures creating another entry level opening for the next one entering the work force.

Let's hope you never have to experience just how difficult it can be to take a huge pay cut later in life that you can't get out of. Let's hope easily leaving a job behind remains an option for you and your reality isn't that if you do leave that job you are on the street next week. There are many people out there experiencing a different reality than you. Minimum wage jobs are no longer just for people entering the workforce. That economy is gone.

[fluffy]

That economy is gone.

Is it gone, or is it just a little farther from the Okanagan than some people are willing to go look ?

[logicalview]

It is important for me to state that I'm only seeing the inside of one perspective - small business.
In the scenario I've got experience with, the tax paid on the dividends by the corporation combined with the personal side are less than if the shareholder took that identical value as wages.

I honestly don't think that is actually true.

[kgcayenne]

You don't have to think it's true.

[Glacier]

I have not done the math myself, but I think kgcayenne knows what she is talking about.

My boss incorporated recently. There are some major advantages to doing this along with making yourself a shareholder. One at the time was income splitting. Yes, income splitting is allowed now for employees, but only up to $2000 savings. There are a few other advantages like the small business income tax deduction. The major advantage is liability. By incorporating you are separating yourself from your business so that your personal assets are protected.

I supposed that shareholders and the company could save in other ways by not having to pay IE deductions. It seems that the savings is a lot like savings you'd find by going self-employed over being an employee.

[fluffy]

I think workforce mobility has quite a bit to with with surviving in the Okanagan as well. People willing to take on intercity commutes are keeping the bills paid, as are those will to do the rotational thing for camp jobs. Good jobs have always been hard to come by in the Okanagan, and the more we become a retirement destination the more demand there is going to be for jobs in the service and retail industries, not particularly famous for being real money-makers. It was always a given when I was growing up here that you left the valley to make decent money, at least until you had a trade under your belt, or the financial means to live on the reduced wages available here. The infamous sunshine tax. I don't approve of it but it is what it is.

[rustled]

Sunshine tax. People are paid extra to work in less desirable places. It's a form of bribery to convince skilled workers to put up with poorer weather along with greater distances from amenities and services we can access within a few minutes from home.

When I moved here from the north, I thought it was quite funny that folk here thought the were being "taxed" because they weren't receiving the extra compensation employers had to pay in other places, just to get people to live there. I guess it's all in your perspective from where you're standing, and where you've been.

[biggoofball]

http://www.castanet.net/edition/news-story-135281-3-.htm#135281

Jim Iker should be the last to talk about any of this....all he sees is more the wage goes up more union dues to them.


But for the Business Owner its not the fact that it would go from 10.20 to 15 dollars which is 4.80 dollars a hour x that by 80 hours for full time per 2 weeks would be 384 dollars more.

BUT its the extra money to Vacation pay would be an extra 23.04 for that 80 hour full time position.

and then the extra taxes for CPP and EI

Have to match CPP which is 56.30 and EI Business have to Match plus a bit more which equals to another 33.47 more...so in total the difference of paying more from 10.20 to 15 is actually 473.77 extra....



to pay a person 15 bucks full time at 80 hour every 2 weeks. its not 1200 for the owner its actually 1673.77 per person

thats a bit of a hit...especially when you have 4 employees...but may have to cut 1 to keep the 3 at the same amount...

AND WCB cost the employer more and more holiday pay also. Hey CPP,UI,WCB all love the wage increase believe you me as the overseers of such corporations get even more pay and bigger bonuses
You pay people 15PH which cost the owner around 20.00 your 4.95 Cheese burger will be 6.95

[Atomoa]

You pay people 15PH which cost the owner around 20.00 your 4.95 Cheese burger will be 6.95

Well, your cheeseburger is 6.95 anyways. The difference in price between a 4.95 and 6.95 hamburger is who pays the taxes that go into the social services that help the employees serving the cheeseburgers stay alive and healthy enough to go to work and serve cheeseburgers. Their wages are not capable of that.

Burger KIng's tax rate was 28% 30 years ago. It's 14% now. That's actually why they came here to Canada.

Your taxes went up, you have user fees now and all sorts of other fees. Less services.

Down for them, more for them. Up for you, less for you.

*Stay with me*

Right now a cheeseburger "costs" 6.95 to serve you. You kick in the difference between 4.95 and 6.95 with a bigger tax bill, user fees and less social services so the owner of the cheeseburger place can pay 50% less taxes and pocket that difference themselves at the same time.

Either way somebody's paying for it. We just feel bad collectively for the guy with the monocle and tophat, apparently.

The collective pot. http://www.parl.gc.ca/content/lop/resea ... 1-44-e.htm

[fluffy]

I wonder how much of that personal income tax total comes from taxes on investment income ?

[Captain Awesome]

I'm perfectly fine with corporate taxes being low. At the end of the day corporations don't consume money. After paying corporate taxes (tax revenue) they pass it down to shareholders in form of dividends (more tax revenue), and/or reinvesting it through employing people (even more tax revenue) and growing (a whole whack of tax revenue). You can jack it up, but that will result in less dividend paid out and less reinvestments. But cutting it will broaden the tax base and overall improves the economy.

[Atomoa]

And in other news...

Ronald Reagan was elected President and said that it's time the fruits of the economy trickle down to the little guy by untying the hands of business with "burdensome taxes".

[biggoofball]

[quote="Atomoa"][quote]And in other news...



Atoma you completely missed the point of my post or choose to just write drival that has nothing to do with what we are talking about.You for some reason don't seem to understand.The cheese burger was 4.95 when they payed the person around 13.00(all in) raise that to 15.00(20.00) all in your burger will now be 6.95.So the guy that got the big raise pays it all back when his purchasing power is diminished by higher prices.Also because you don't seem to grasp it the 4.95/6.95 is for example only it has no bearing on what the actual today prices are as its all relevant when comparing.
Also to note the tax rate is 15% Federal and between 5+12% provincial

[fluffy]

It's easy to see that there are people having trouble getting by and hard to argue with the thought that a few extra bucks in the pay envelope would help. What's not easy to see is that this deceivingly simple act of a raise in minimum wage has far reaching effects, and that short run help for those in need would in the long run do them harm.

At the risk of being accused of "blaming the victim", I tend to think that as a society we have become more than a little lazy. Many of us have forgotten the old rules about getting ahead, specifically education and hard work. Those who have hung on to those old ideals are doing fine for the most part, yes there are unfortunate exceptions in every case but they are just that...exceptions.