Young children can't be home alone, BC judge rules

[whatwhat]

I would also be interested in knowing how the parent plays a role in how the children remember and experienced the "wrongful removal". I am sure when the children are removed from the home, the parent/parents are not happy/calm about it. I am sure they are screaming, crying yelling, swearing, fighting with the social workers. I wonder how that behavior effects the children? I also wonder afterwards, how the parents discuss and talk about the experience effects how the way the child sees the experience. If parents think their children are so vulnerable that they don't want social workers talking to their children alone, as they may change the child's mind. Don't you think the parent may also have the same effect when talking negatively about the experience.

[Donald G]

By the time MCF intervene in a family in Canada I suspect that a huge amount of damage has already been done to most of the children that they have to work with. It is a matter of trying to repair damage already done to the child or children.

[Barney Google]

No amount of preparation can totally alleviate the trauma and angst involved in removing children from their parent's care and custody. Even in the most amicable of instances if parents help prepare their children and they get support from Ministry staff it's not pleasant. Kids are WAY smarter than we think they are and they are not easily fooled. In the instances where issues are extremely difficult and parents (which, many times, is understandable) are not as cooperative as they could be it is just horrific. Can one completely repair the damage? NO, of course not,...that would be like asking a child to forget the feelings and emotions they had when they watched their parents (imagined or not) being loaded into trains or trucks taking them away to prisoner camps. Helping them to work through that experience can be done but it is a long and difficult process. They will carry that memory and those feelings for the rest of their lives, helping them to cope is the best that can be offered. Being with people who are caring and loving and empathic...and most importantly capable of knowing and seeing when the child wants time alone and when one needs to talk...or just be held can go a long way. Still, there will never be anything to completely help deal with it all. Helping to get the family healthy and the support they need and, whenever possible, back together. Is that always what happens in BC...very sadly no. That's the frustrating and maddening part.

Ages ago, when I was working on 'the front lines' 'difficult removal/apprehension' was the part I loathed the most. Before then, I thought I was a pretty tough person capable to controlling my emotions and feelings etc.. All the training in the World doesn't fully prepare you. I was hard pressed to keep myself in check at times. I would often go to my then colleagues, RCMP Officers, First Responders, Senior Social Workers and ask them how THEY dealt with it. Most of the time I got, "its part of the job...you just handle it'. As a parent (and most of my colleagues back then were parents too) I could only imagine what it was like for them when they had to face that on a daily basis. I only had to 'deal with it' once or twice a month. I have watched the toll it takes on other 'Front-liners'...they were/are much bigger and better people than I. Needless to say, I didn't last long on 'the front lines' before I decided it was in the best interests of everyone that I step back and allow those who were stronger than I to assist in that process. It came one day after I struggled to control myself from smoking a parent in the head for what had obviously been done to his child. Of course, nothing came of it but I knew then I needed to step back. I did a better job helping the kids get through the emotional time and giving them a safe place to grow and find their place in life.

Point I'd like to make here...is that "The System" in BC is not working and in my opinion has never worked. We have WAY too many children in care and way too many times, the in care situations are not all that much better than what those kids are taken away from. In some instances, IMHO, it's worse. BC and this Ministry needs a slap up side the head and a HUGE mega wake up call to make MANY much needed changes NOW!!!

[Piecemaker]

Still waiting for an answer to a question I find important. Any professionals left to actually anser it??

If you forgot, or didn't see it asked 19 times.....here's the question:
How is the arbitrary removal of children from loving homes without reason a benefit to the children ???

That question can not be answered because children are not arbitrarily removed from loving homes without reason.

Yes, mistakes are made. Usually they are made because the ones making the decisions did not have all the information. Contrary to what some posters on this forum believe, taking children away from their parents is the last choice not the first choice.
There are far more kids living in situations that would make most of us on this forum sick, than there are kids taken in error from their parents.
Something to remember is that the story you read about or see on TV is usually only the perspective from the parent. Reporters don't know what questions to ask.
As to the father in Kelowna who left his kids home alone. Someone reported them to be unsafe, the Ministry did not go hunt them down. The children most likely spent the night with their mother or another family member and were not put in foster care.

[Piecemaker]

Ironic that there are some on here who think it's OK for 8 to 11-year olds in the care of their parents to be left home alone, but an 18 year-old in Ministry care cannot be left alone in a hotel room.
There are many 18 year-olds preparing to leave Ministry care that have their own accommodation. While renting a motel or hotel suite is not my idea of ideal accommodation, it sure beats a shelter or the street.
In some other provinces 18year-olds are considered adults and receive no government support. (Some it's age 16.)

However that a youth completed suicide is sad and a loss that happens far too often. I don't think his accommodation was the issue and should not be where the focus is. Likely something was going on in his personal life and he made an impulsive decision. (I believe I read somewhere he had a diagnosis of FASD. I have known a number of young people with that diagnosis who were happy-go-lucky much of the time and then would have an emotional dive and be depressed and isolate for a short time. They were not good problem solvers and not good at knowing when to ask for help.)
Suicide is the second only to accidents as the cause of death in teens. Not just teens in government care, but all teens. It's an issue that needs to be talked about with our children.

[Donald G]

To Piecemaker ...

Like Barney Google you appear to have been there and done that. As a person who was involved in intermittently working with the MCF Protection Unit in several locations over 32 years (from a policing perspective) I agree with your first hand comment about the numbers of children who must continue to live horrible lives BECAUSE THEY DO NOT COME TO THE ATTENTION OF MCF.

I personally had two files involving children who committed suicide due to child abuse. Unfortunately the abuse only surfaced after they had taken their own lives.

Eighteen and living in private accommodation is one hell of a lot better than they had before being moved to motel or hotel accommodation. When no one wants them at 18, and they have the right to make their own decisions, what are the MCF workers to do. Magic does not exist in real life. Only in the minds of those who do not have a clue what they are talking about.

[SmokeOnTheWater]

As a person who was involved in intermittently working with the MCF Protection Unit in several locations over 32 years (from a policing perspective) I agree with your first hand comment about the numbers of children who must continue to live horrible lives BECAUSE THEY DO NOT COME TO THE ATTENTION OF MCF.

I personally had two files involving children who committed suicide due to child abuse. Unfortunately the abuse only surfaced after they had taken their own lives.

You told us you were involved with marijuana prohibition and criminal gangs for 32 years.
Repeating lies over and over does not make it true.
Impersonating a police officer is against the law.

[whatwhat]

Eighteen and living in private accommodation is one hell of a lot better than they had before being moved to motel or hotel accommodation. When no one wants them at 18, and they have the right to make their own decisions, what are the MCF workers to do. Magic does not exist in real life. Only in the minds of those who do not have a clue what they are talking about.

Not to mention, literally no one wants to foster a teenager. The amount of people actually willing to foster/look after a teenager once they have been removed is minimal. Everyone wants the cute little babies, but once the children hit a certain age the amount of people willing to help diminishes. Especially when those teenagers come with behavioral problems. There are limits on the amount of children and teenagers allowed in one home, so I am sure the people who are willing to take care of teenagers are already at capacity.

[Barney Google]

Not to mention, literally no one wants to foster a teenager. The amount of people actually willing to foster/look after a teenager once they have been removed is minimal. Everyone wants the cute little babies, but once the children hit a certain age the amount of people willing to help diminishes. Especially when those teenagers come with behavioral problems. There are limits on the amount of children and teenagers allowed in one home, so I am sure the people who are willing to take care of teenagers are already at capacity.

You are quite correct What What...not many homes are willing to foster teens. It's a dynamic most foster parents are not able nor, more so, trained to handle. Most Foster homes geared for teens are often just 'holding' places until Ministry can decide on and secure gradual 'independent living' accommodations for them. It's often extremely frustrating because these kids are the ones that need the most consistent and strong support and yet the support the Teen Foster Homes get is nothing near what is actually needed. I have seen some very huge holes in the BC Foster Home Program. Folks genuinely wanting to be part of growing and supporting children and not being trained adequately or having minimal to no back up when things start to get difficult.

[Donald G]

To Smoke ...

If you find it surprising that dealing with drugs and drug gangs gives rise to knowledge regarding drugs and the earlier abuse of children, teens and adults who use them, you have no knowledge regarding either.

Where do you think that the majority of people who buy drugs come from ?? Sunday school ??

Your lack of knowledge is depressing but, as noted in various comments, you are not alone in living in your "normal" world.

You are obviously one of the very fortunate people in this world. Take time to appreciate it.

[SmokeOnTheWater]

To Smoke ...

If you find it surprising that dealing with drugs and drug gangs gives rise to knowledge regarding drugs and the earlier abuse of children, teens and adults who use them, you have no knowledge regarding either.

Where do you think that the majority of people who buy drugs come from ?? Sunday school ??

Your lack of knowledge is depressing but, as noted in various comments, you are not alone in living in your "normal" world.

You are obviously one of the very fortunate people in this world. Take time to appreciate it.

Nice try. Like I said impersonating a police officer is against the law.

[MAPearce]

removed.

[whatwhat]

Removed.